<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">I vote strongly against this proposal <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">— Michael’s answers seem to sum up pretty well my opinion. So I will mostly rely on them without restating them.<div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I have kept up to date with discussion up until now and I must say that no clear advantage has been stated; all the arguments made for and against seemed to pretty much cancel each other out. With no clear advantage I vote, strongly, for choice! </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">One final thought, the proposal is severely one sided. You’d almost think nobody was opposed to it at all, when in reality there were many dissenters that all made at least as good arguments as the proponents did.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 16, 2015, at 12:37 PM, Michael Wells via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">* What is your evaluation of the proposal?</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">-1</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">I’m not in favor of the changes. After adopting the current Swift style of omitting self when possible, I find my code is much more readable. I certainly understand and respect the reasoning behind the proposal, but I am not convinced that the changes are worth the cost. </div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">* Is the problem being addressed significant enough to warrant a change to Swift?<br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"><span class="" style="white-space: normal;"><br class=""></span></span></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">I don’t think so. This seems like something best addressed with a code style or formatting tool. Nothing prohibits you from requiring the use of self in your own code. </div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"><span class="" style="white-space: normal;"><br class=""></span></span>* Does this proposal fit well with the feel and direction of Swift?</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">I do like that it would lead to consistent code: you always use self to access instance members. On the other had, the visual weight of it seems to outbalance any gain.</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">* If you have you used other languages or libraries with a similar feature, how do you feel that this proposal compares to those?</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">I’ve always preferred the style that Swift has adopted and will continue to use that if at all possible.<br class=""><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">* How much effort did you put into your review? A glance, a quick reading, or an in-depth study?</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"> </div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">I’ve been keeping up with the thread, but I didn’t do any in-depth study or anything. </div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 16, 2015, at 10:58 AM, Douglas Gregor via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span class="" style="font-family: SanFranciscoText-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;">All of the prior swift-evolution commentary on this proposal (which is nearing the 100-message mark) will also be considered, of course!</span><div class="" style="font-family: SanFranciscoText-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: SanFranciscoText-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>- Doug<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 16, 2015, at 10:55 AM, Douglas Gregor via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Hello Swift community,<div class=""><br class=""><div class="">The review of “Require self for accessing instance members” begins now and runs through Sunday, December 20th. The proposal is available here:</div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span><a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0009-require-self-for-accessing-instance-members.md" class="">https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0009-require-self-for-accessing-instance-members.md</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">Reviews are an important part of the Swift evolution process. All reviews should be sent to the swift-evolution mailing list at</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">or, if you would like to keep your feedback private, directly to the review manager.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">What goes into a review?</div><div class=""><br class="">The goal of the review process is to improve the proposal under review through constructive criticism and, eventually, determine the direction of Swift. When writing your review, here are some questions you might want to answer in your review:<br class=""><br class=""><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>* What is your evaluation of the proposal?<br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>* Is the problem being addressed significant enough to warrant a change to Swift?<br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>* Does this proposal fit well with the feel and direction of Swift?<br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>* If you have you used other languages or libraries with a similar feature, how do you feel that this proposal compares to those?<br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>* How much effort did you put into your review? A glance, a quick reading, or an in-depth study?<br class=""></div><br class=""></div><div class="">More information about the Swift evolution process is available at</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span><a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/process.md" class="">https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/process.md</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>Cheers,</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>Doug Gregor</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>Review Manager</div></div><img src="https://u2002410.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/open?upn=XbU4wxnU83GyR7TGhOdBtBOchMF7PYvaYPXWDKda2ffqX-2BT18BxAwYLO-2BpcXBRy5XplLrZqRUgm2BTqTYbF-2FCRM0sp6as2nRXCfOll-2BwWZl1e3uzq-2FA7SZ2AlxwHWsBP82ja8YjdgkPtsOLlkWfXRCkIvATzzCE6vfTL2j8n0ywCQu7leMBb3iCJJNCl6vqlM-2BLvplDbi2Z-2BA6jxEdbrj-2B0KHLY0d-2FINL-2BM-2B2BpszbM-3D" alt="" width="1" height="1" border="0" class="" style="height: 1px !important; width: 1px !important; border-width: 0px !important; margin: 0px !important; padding: 0px !important;"></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">swift-evolution mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div><img src="https://u2002410.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/open?upn=HDu-2BON2WuckNVJ2U1s3AlGtQzxf9Sed-2BdTfqtEgw00d0ZGBvKdpjIxEtXUjzXQTfG5ZIq2F5fGDk5oXO6SYjeQl3fKf30TfmXEBzJqRxFMP-2FozgnTi6VlvwqMAp1JJNe-2BmNZWZk2EmSH70TROxMvhpquTTqTc3LAct7WJWkJYz6zPZT0hx6WER6uF1dwpM95-2Bl7d3l36AQ56LiYV2U3mhJP1TM-2BRVQp7CJtYw9-2FwSxk-3D" alt="" width="1" height="1" border="0" class="" style="font-family: SanFranciscoText-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; 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