<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Same here: not much to add, but also a -1 on this proposal.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I would, however, like to bring up the obvious comparison between swift and objective-c. Swift is much more readable for a series of reasons, and the fact that ‘self’ isn’t mandatory is doubtlessly one of them.</div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 16, 2015, at 2:52 PM, Marco Masser via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: UICTFontTextStyleTallBody; font-size: 17px;" class="">I don't have anything to add to Michael's answer but want to add my voice to this side of the argument. I'd answer ever question as he did.</span><br style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: UICTFontTextStyleTallBody; font-size: 17px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">On Wednesday, December 16, 2015, Michael Wells via swift-evolution <</span><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">> wrote:</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div class="">* What is your evaluation of the proposal?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">-1</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I’m not in favor of the changes. After adopting the current Swift style of omitting self when possible, I find my code is much more readable. I certainly understand and respect the reasoning behind the proposal, but I am not convinced that the changes are worth the cost. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">* Is the problem being addressed significant enough to warrant a change to Swift?<br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;" class=""><span style="white-space: normal;" class=""><br class=""></span></span></div><div class="">I don’t think so. This seems like something best addressed with a code style or formatting tool. Nothing prohibits you from requiring the use of self in your own code. </div><div class=""><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;" class=""><span style="white-space: normal;" class=""><br class=""></span></span>* Does this proposal fit well with the feel and direction of Swift?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I do like that it would lead to consistent code: you always use self to access instance members. On the other had, the visual weight of it seems to outbalance any gain.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">* If you have you used other languages or libraries with a similar feature, how do you feel that this proposal compares to those?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I’ve always preferred the style that Swift has adopted and will continue to use that if at all possible.<br class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">* How much effort did you put into your review? A glance, a quick reading, or an in-depth study?</div><div class=""> </div><div class="">I’ve been keeping up with the thread, but I didn’t do any in-depth study or anything. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 16, 2015, at 10:58 AM, Douglas Gregor via swift-evolution <<a target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family: SanFranciscoText-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">All of the prior swift-evolution commentary on this proposal (which is nearing the 100-message mark) will also be considered, of course!</span><div style="font-family: SanFranciscoText-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: SanFranciscoText-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;" class=""> </span>- Doug<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 16, 2015, at 10:55 AM, Douglas Gregor via swift-evolution <<a target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word;" class="">Hello Swift community,<div class=""><br class=""><div class="">The review of “Require self for accessing instance members” begins now and runs through Sunday, December 20th. The proposal is available here:</div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;" class=""> </span><a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0009-require-self-for-accessing-instance-members.md" target="_blank" class="">https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0009-require-self-for-accessing-instance-members.md</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">Reviews are an important part of the Swift evolution process. All reviews should be sent to the swift-evolution mailing list at</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;" class=""> </span><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">or, if you would like to keep your feedback private, directly to the review manager.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">What goes into a review?</div><div class=""><br class="">The goal of the review process is to improve the proposal under review through constructive criticism and, eventually, determine the direction of Swift. When writing your review, here are some questions you might want to answer in your review:<br class=""><br class=""><div class=""><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;" class=""> </span>* What is your evaluation of the proposal?<br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;" class=""> </span>* Is the problem being addressed significant enough to warrant a change to Swift?<br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;" class=""> </span>* Does this proposal fit well with the feel and direction of Swift?<br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;" class=""> </span>* If you have you used other languages or libraries with a similar feature, how do you feel that this proposal compares to those?<br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;" class=""> </span>* How much effort did you put into your review? A glance, a quick reading, or an in-depth study?<br class=""></div><br class=""></div><div class="">More information about the Swift evolution process is available at</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;" class=""> </span><a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/process.md" target="_blank" class="">https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/process.md</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;" class=""> </span>Cheers,</div><div class=""><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;" class=""> </span>Doug Gregor</div><div class=""><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;" class=""> </span>Review Manager</div></div><img src="https://u2002410.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/open?upn=XbU4wxnU83GyR7TGhOdBtBOchMF7PYvaYPXWDKda2ffqX-2BT18BxAwYLO-2BpcXBRy5XplLrZqRUgm2BTqTYbF-2FCRM0sp6as2nRXCfOll-2BwWZl1e3uzq-2FA7SZ2AlxwHWsBP82ja8YjdgkPtsOLlkWfXRCkIvATzzCE6vfTL2j8n0ywCQu7leMBb3iCJJNCl6vqlM-2BLvplDbi2Z-2BA6jxEdbrj-2B0KHLY0d-2FINL-2BM-2B2BpszbM-3D" alt="" width="1" height="1" border="0" style="min-height: 1px !important; width: 1px !important; border-width: 0px !important; margin: 0px !important; padding: 0px !important;" class=""></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">swift-evolution mailing list<br class=""><a target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div><img src="https://u2002410.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/open?upn=HDu-2BON2WuckNVJ2U1s3AlGtQzxf9Sed-2BdTfqtEgw00d0ZGBvKdpjIxEtXUjzXQTfG5ZIq2F5fGDk5oXO6SYjeQl3fKf30TfmXEBzJqRxFMP-2FozgnTi6VlvwqMAp1JJNe-2BmNZWZk2EmSH70TROxMvhpquTTqTc3LAct7WJWkJYz6zPZT0hx6WER6uF1dwpM95-2Bl7d3l36AQ56LiYV2U3mhJP1TM-2BRVQp7CJtYw9-2FwSxk-3D" alt="" width="1" height="1" border="0" style="font-family: SanFranciscoText-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; min-height: 1px !important; width: 1px !important; border-width: 0px !important; margin: 0px !important; padding: 0px !important;" class=""><span style="font-family: SanFranciscoText-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><span class=""> </span></span><span style="font-family: SanFranciscoText-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: SanFranciscoText-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: SanFranciscoText-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">swift-evolution mailing list</span><br style="font-family: SanFranciscoText-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><a target="_blank" style="font-family: SanFranciscoText-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br style="font-family: SanFranciscoText-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" target="_blank" style="font-family: SanFranciscoText-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a></div></blockquote></div><br class=""><img src="https://u2002410.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/open?upn=K9qmNlgbKPPmGnoyPaIDeacyynE-2BO94GI4Zq4mx9Z8TAU-2BrzFf5UGv5c7B08-2B7sewd-2BpSUON1PKRiEROOHKPC9jifOk4pEhpLzkjfQEJAX-2BxrUaCh792E2LagKlnnCmB5lujfIdA3XLlaZwuRx1BYZuXAB860T8hWpVfYkQFkuoOv0dyvLKjcdXBs1Mi8FPX-2F7x1TDsXMbp8pc3ko1WixPSPQKKJ6SAjkgM5YiQjD7c-3D" alt="" width="1" height="1" border="0" style="min-height: 1px !important; width: 1px !important; border-width: 0px !important; margin: 0px !important; padding: 0px !important;" class=""></div></blockquote><img src="https://u2002410.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/open?upn=LFwSuj9FMv8p5lHRk78JpoTG6TdqPOb6ZXyNv3YIC3y8FI5DRldachA7VLQ4krWLhApEuZ6Hb0ZTsc6TzjFqP19mVN-2BBRsy4LInJS9UdUASCQVgiyXyfjh2cgkHJoMS1e527qFnomf5swr6RwmP7u9wLHJcfQvZ-2FvHu44PiYhi09wSuNt05xFwh12zdVofA5CJcq-2Fe8mgGXC5CdsmJnnwcQmq9ntRJhv3VNmbxQhJ9M-3D" alt="" width="1" height="1" border="0" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; height: 1px !important; width: 1px !important; border-width: 0px !important; margin: 0px !important; padding: 0px !important;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">swift-evolution mailing list</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>