<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 15, 2015, at 10:28 AM, David Owens II <<a href="mailto:david@owensd.io" class="">david@owensd.io</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Why couple two systems together that don’t need to be? Also, using issues as a discussion list is really abusing it’s purpose. Is someone really going to go through and mark certain ones closed and others not?</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>Abusing it’s purpose? That’s a bit of a stretch considering it was designed for specifically the purpose of discussing proposed changes.</div><div><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">By coupling the two systems together, you make it significantly more challenging change how the source code is stored and where. You’ve arbitrarily said that GitHub is <i class="">the</i> way we are going to manage this project for all of time. How do you export all of the issues into another system now? </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Via API access you can export any data in your Github account should that day come.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It <i class="">might</i> be more convenient for some, but it creates long-term problems for no measurable short-term gain.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>There is quite a bit to gain actually as many have pointed out. You may disagree but don’t discount others opinions out of hand.</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Also, your list of steps conveniently leaves out the setup process for a GitHub account. </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>He also left out the day he created his email account. Aside from it being required, it’s also not unreasonable to assume a developer has a Github account.</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 15, 2015, at 9:11 AM, James Campbell via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Additionally this isn't reworking the infrastructure all we have to do is stop using mailman and start using github issues. It would take 2 seconds and would save more time than having to redirect people here and maintain mailman etc.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 5:06 PM, James Campbell <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:james@supmenow.com" target="_blank" class="">james@supmenow.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class="">Exactly, if a discussion goes well. People are going to have to make an account anyways to contribute their idea to swift. So we are picking mailman to optimise for something that isn't actually an advantage at all. Plus we have less power to filter than github.</div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 4:32 PM, Kevin Wooten <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:kdubb@me.com" target="_blank" class="">kdubb@me.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class="">Agreed, +10<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Somebody brought up the idea of needing “yet another account”. Just wanted to point out that Github, and an it’s associated account, area already required; and honestly who doesn’t have a Github account at this point.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">A lot of advantages have already been brought up but I would like to add…</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">— Being able to filter discussions that don’t interest me</div><div class="">In Github ‘watching' the project means I can get emails for all discussions (issues or PRs). I can then selectively disable notifications associated with a specific thread that doesn’t interest me. For people who are mostly inactive the opposite is available; to opt-in to only interested threads. This is something not available at all at the moment; even though my Apple mail sorts nicely by thread it's not the same thing. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">— Inline code coloring/formatting</div><div class="">Unless I am missing some great feature of Mailman, this is something that’s a bit annoying at the moment. Yes I know I can got to an external tool and copy out formatted code for my email but Github discussions provide this in a much easier fashion. We are discussing “code” after all.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">— One can make (Github notifications == Mailman) be true</div><div class="">If a person turns on email notifications for everything and they can participate in discussions just like they do now; including reading/responding entirely via email.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="">On Dec 15, 2015, at 8:28 AM, James Campbell via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">+1 for mailing list.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This is what I had to do to contribute to swift.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">1. Search for the Swift Repo</div><div class="">2. Navigate to Repo</div><div class="">3. File Issue and wait.</div><div class="">4. Get told I have to discuss in the mailing list.</div><div class="">5. Search for swift website</div><div class="">6. Find page for mailing lists.</div><div class="">7. figure out which one I'm interested in and click on it.</div><div class="">8. Enter my details.</div><div class="">9. go to my email client and confirm my subscription.</div><div class="">10. remember email address for mailing address.</div><div class="">11. type it into a new email and compose thoughts.</div><div class="">12. send it.</div><div class="">13. after much discussion, if people like it.</div><div class="">14. navigate back to the repo.</div><div class="">15. fork.</div><div class="">16. make changes.</div><div class="">17. open pull request.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Steps if we just did it via github issues:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">1. Search for the Swift Repo</div><div class="">2. Navigate to Repo</div><div class="">3. File Issue and wait.</div><div class="">4. after much discussion, if people like it.</div><div class="">5. navigate back to the repo.</div><div class="">6. fork.</div><div class="">7. make changes.</div><div class="">8. open pull request.</div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I can't see why 17 steps is better for engagement and more people contributing ?</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 3:06 PM, Robert Schwalbe via swift-evolution <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class="">
Mailman is tried and true, but also a bit clunky. Many people might not like participating in these sorts of discussions by email.<br class="">
<br class=""></span>
Has there been any though of using something like Discourse (<<a href="http://www.discourse.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://www.discourse.org/</a>><a href="http://www.discourse.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://www.discourse.org/</a>) for the Swift mailing lists?<br class="">
<br class="">
Jacob Bandes-Storch<br class="">
</blockquote>
<br class="">
-1 for not using a mailing list (or +1 FOR using a mailng list).<br class="">
<br class="">
Being able to keep a full searchable archive on my own hardware is indispensable.<br class="">
Big numbers in an inbox do not scare me. I am in full control in maintaining the<br class="">
archive and what I may not have any interest in today, I may have tomorrow.<br class="">
<br class="">
One day, the silos will disappear.<div class=""><div class=""><br class="">
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