<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 15, 2015, at 9:17 AM, Ilya Belenkiy via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: pre-wrap; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">I think that I already gave simple and reasonable examples. If this was a complicated issue, I would agree that a coded example would be useful. But in this case, it looks like anything small will be called contrived, and anything big will be called poorly designed.</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: pre-wrap; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: pre-wrap; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: pre-wrap; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">I think that I already presented my case. I hope that the discussion is enough to submit a formal proposal. If not, I'll stop here.</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: pre-wrap; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""><div class="">There’s no reason to not submit a proposal for it with examples and references to the criticism in this thread and your counter for it. If nothing else, it would consolidate this thread as there have been multiple variations proposed throughout and solidify <i class="">exactly</i> what the proposal is all about.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">My person vote is to not support further grain access controls. It's not because your examples were not reasonable, but because I come from a perspective where I don’t think the language complexity warrants it and the use case is very narrowly focused. Others have been in favor of it though.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So go for it.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">-David</div></body></html>