<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">I wouldn't hold up J2EE and associated JSR specs for associated utilities as an example of success.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">J2EE’s history is largely one of failed standardization efforts: specs that suffered from being designed in a vacuum, being designed by committee, or being unable to keep up with evolving insights, needs, and expectations.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The most successful API standardization JSRs have tended to be ones that abstracted third-party projects that already developed and honed _outside_ the JSR process. The spectacular failure of Entity Beans and their wholesale replacement by Hibernate is a prime example, but not the only one.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The core team’s phase 3 goals sound right to me: achieve core stability before expanding the domain of what is “core.”</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">There are still important problems and gaps with the language’s semantics to be solved.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Cheers,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Paul</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 7, 2015, at 11:16 AM, Simon Pilkington via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">I agree that things like this are seperate to the stdlib but I think it would be preferable that they be controlled as part the Swift project. If you look at Java EE and their JSR specs, they are authoritative because they are part of the platform and not a loosely coupled side project. This is not to say they can’t or shouldn’t start out as side projects but I think there should be some process for bringing them in to be defined as part the Swift project.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 7 Dec 2015, at 8:24 AM, Lukas Stabe via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">The [Nest project](</span><a href="https://github.com/nestproject/Nest" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">https://github.com/nestproject/Nest</a><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">) seems to aim to be something like this.</span><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">While I agree that a Rack/WSGI/Plack equivalent would be benificial to have, I don’t think it fits the current goals of the stdlib (providing basic data structures and algorithms) for now.</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Lukas</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 07 Dec 2015, at 16:27, John Siracusa via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">The very first thing I considered writing in Swift is an implementation of Plack (<a href="http://plackperl.org/" target="_blank" class="">http://plackperl.org/</a>). It seems like every language benefits from having something like this (Rack in Ruby, WSGI in Python, etc.), even if only to insulate web applications from the web server implementation. I'm not sure if a language benefits from having 20 things like this, at least in the long run…<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">-John</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Coen Wessels via swift-evolution<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="ltr" class="">Since the linux port is available everybody is implementing their own HTTP server framework <a href="https://github.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=http+language%3Aswift" target="_blank" class="">https://github.com/search?utf8=✓&q=http+language%3Aswift</a>. I think introducing a default http web server protocol(swift protocol) in the stdlib, something like rack(ruby) or plug(elixir), would prevent a lot of fragmentation in interfaces.</div><img src="https://u2002410.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/open?upn=zlf4dR0nvlJYLhwcLLjLQ-2FCecgKliMR5YhsxHxM-2Fcowa8evoJSD02kJtgKZfI7KBAWaEJ5BnjfHVTAHmCJ1HwN6zqEMg9PWi0nCOj8jvgABUaMrg70o3z-2BaZty6BXkF1bthPWb1DQmZe1ARCTmoelYHhP58a5hCmcl7F-2BEoj9zS2UBN7A7W8TtImq95qN7Wc4Z6jUdvvPiSPTsL-2FDThtn2Ih4sBf-2F3cRrVtvqdrpPX0-3D" alt="" width="1" height="1" border="0" class="" style="min-height: 1px !important; width: 1px !important; border-width: 0px !important; margin: 0px !important; padding: 0px !important;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">swift-evolution mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br class=""><br class=""></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div><img src="https://u2002410.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/open?upn=WzenSAN-2FiuX4NjI8OMkm0C8OpI7loozbOyGjfevETZsU3AMXI2dZCz3ujF-2FJuCLk98DkIl-2B5qrHGFzUMytqM-2FWa3tR-2BB-2BG0hykMBvkV5LeFNYnwJT1UZS8zcyV2ctYFfxIlmF6hOLfWYccs8DlZfKfITVANp-2Fk7wDM39dBaxAymMJHxVGE3infqH4sDlXAOAK9b-2B8-2FDL9FODCv3R8Zc3QoSMIN9ZXYFAOJNUYFzmkOA-3D" alt="" width="1" height="1" border="0" class="" style="height: 1px !important; 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