<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 6, 2015, at 11:31 AM, David Waite via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Nearly every for loop I’ve written in other languages has used pre or post increment (depending on the language), which is being removed in Swift 3.0. It makes sense for 'for loops' to go if pre/post increment goes away.</span></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>I’m not 100% convinced by this line of reasoning (using the += form or successor() isn’t THAT clunky) but it is awfully poetic.</div><div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Fun fact, you write (albiet with different syntax) C-style for-loops as library code:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""></div></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div><div class="">for i in CStyle(0, {$0 < 20}, {$0 += 1}) {</div><div class=""> // do something 20 times</div><div class="">}</div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>Where CStyle is just a straightforward implementation of SequenceType. (Tuples allow for simultaneous iteration, which is usually when I end up with C-style for-loops)</div><div><br class=""></div><div>(Apologies if this was mentioned up thread, I’ve only just recently joined the list)</div><div><br class=""></div><div>-Colin</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="">-DW</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 6, 2015, at 9:03 AM, Don Wills via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;">I too hope that the proposal to remove C-style loops is rejected. Yes, they aren't that necessary any more, but if we want Swift to compete with Java, C#, C++ and C, there is no reason to remove basic features like C-style loops just because they are politically incorrect. If there was a functional reason, I might get on board with removing it, but there isn't.</span><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">I also hope that the decision to remove increment and decrement operators is reversed using the same logic. Just because *you* don't like something that has been a feature of dozens of programming languages for 40 years doesn't mean removing that feature is a good idea. One man's goto statement is another man's Leatherman multi-tool. And FWIW, if C-style loops stay in the language, they become much more ugly without increment and decrement.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Don Wills</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 6, 2015, at 8:33 AM, inbox only via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">True,even that a feature isn't used doesn't mean that you need to remove that feature.<div class="">I hope that the proposal will be rejected.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">2015-12-06 12:03 GMT+02:00 Clemens Wagner via swift-evolution<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>></span>:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex;">> We’ve developed a number of Swift apps for various clients over the past year and have not needed C style for loops either.<br class=""><br class="">But I think this is a very weak reason for *removing* any portion like C-loops and increment or decrement operators of a programming language. How about the developers and the productive code which used C-style loops already?<br class=""><br class="">I understand the reasons why you, Erica and the others don’t like C-style loops. 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