<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">On December 5, 2015 at 7:09:51 PM, Amir Michail via swift-evolution (<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>) wrote:</div> <div><blockquote type="cite" class="clean_bq" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">On Dec 5, 2015, at 7:05 PM, Austin Zheng via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">ml><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class="">I disagree with the idea that a type system is too much of a hurdle for beginner programmers to overcome.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>Don’t you think that Python currently provides a better introduction to programming due to its simplicity?</div></div></div></div></span></blockquote></div><p>I disagree. The only reason people think Python is a simpler introduction language is because so far Swift has only been used to teach iOS and OS X programming never as a programming language in itself. And if you decide to introduce someone to programming and have them jump into iOS or OS X programming they have to learn a new way of thinking (programming) as well as all the underlying complexities of building an app like the view controller lifecycle, run loops, target action, MVC, etc. If swift were taught as a pure programming language I think it would serve as a far superior introduction to programming than Python, or any other programming language that currently exists for that matter.</p><div><blockquote type="cite" class="clean_bq" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div><div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Austin</div><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 5, 2015, at 4:01 PM, Kevin Lundberg via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div class="">This is somewhat possible today on Apple platforms with AnyObject. You can call any objc-visible method on AnyObject and it will compile, and the return type will also be AnyObject (I don't recall if the return type is optional as well or not). This doesn't work with value types, but neither does id in objc.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Having a more complete lax typed mode similar to Python or php I think is of limited usefulness, would add too much complexity to the language, and yield too much uncertainty about any given piece of swift code. <br class=""><br class="">--<div class="">Kevin Lundberg</div></div><div class=""><br class="">On Dec 5, 2015, at 6:50 PM, Adrian Kashivskyy via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">I can't believe I'm seeing a proposal to remove type safety, one of the fundamental features of Swift...<br class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">Regards,</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Adrian Kashivskyy</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">iOS Developer at Netguru</div></div><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Wiadomość napisana przez Amir Michail via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> w dniu 05.12.2015, o godz. 20:51:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">Python is still easier than Swift for beginning programmers. But maybe such a mode can allow Swift to be used by beginners also?<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><em class="">____________________________________________</em>_ swift-evolution mailing list<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a></p><img src="https://u2002410.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/open?upn=Q0Y0L54uOhrrHtFzGFlMmzHCkni7p1uaN05dut7Y5S4G0GoEQGYV8zFSQbCSyNzU-2FAsa7j-2FUD3WXyQP46SbPHF8I6gI8vOq1IfZwYjBjlDpnWX1CWqLulrsA4gW02al8NlT9Bm5WyXG2BRqocKtZ8erDDmsrDWjbrBOIGFzMtTuEZi7IpwltZomsodaeNR3-2BT3C9TyVOILgS3N59QcSdEaEDCZNBlz-2F1efwHoJ9cx7A-3D" alt="" width="1" height="1" border="0" class="" style="height: 1px !important; width: 1px !important; border-width: 0px !important; margin: 0px !important; padding: 0px !important;"></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""><img src="https://u2002410.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/open?upn=AxVqvhl7qaAz-2FE20TrrgNT-2F44XdgxmRgRA416dJII-2BS3-2FkEQHhrM-2FxVCnGh0OhFlxVgBJevmZT2Ox1Kqs8GzDY-2BGBcaH5HUeTERBgLIMUNTnJF5-2BVco96wzBdMNECdp8w3uYWiEYzfa0dt-2BxsLE4POWwEGgIf2a3TOopk7Cku3KrCu9n8eYdMWQjL2PAabVP4eUx1HfRa94wYcE29tv7Zh4J4umLpxRq37P4OOSEU40-3D" alt="" width="1" height="1" border="0" class="" style="height: 1px !important; width: 1px !important; border-width: 0px !important; margin: 0px !important; padding: 0px !important;"></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><span class="">_______________________________________________</span><br class=""><span class="">swift-evolution mailing list</span><br class=""><span class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a></span><br class=""><span class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a></span><br class=""></div></blockquote><img src="https://u2002410.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/open?upn=7XtDdMHRjqIUi4tzSjSp2pWQIyxYdP6woIWn4vwV5gekUOV701FbMwRWJtnKUrWorolOo4bdn6wc2xgYpCYiGJWa3j4tsMBCZndAFNr7OoYBnD-2F1L3Zis8G30vcXUGrvPhIF-2FsfBLO6kO1XCHSL6bEP-2B8-2FHpVEsKWoB2bN3lsDk5U1N3rw4KkhHJwwYkF3RDZ0Z6TaSi0YtsccbUsmIxL6vighW7d1jlZLrQ7OU2gNs-3D" alt="" width="1" height="1" border="0" class="" style="height: 1px !important; width: 1px !important; border-width: 0px !important; margin: 0px !important; padding: 0px !important;"></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">swift-evolution mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""><img src="https://u2002410.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/open?upn=2B7F2l-2FSnuN-2Bu5iv-2FwIMsffhJH-2F7mw5PnNN35hfDpyQLj0YcB0B5NlXVLxTkjPUEcjscT8Bh5j9sGJUO-2BWqcZZF3AKi0-2BF2Dr47hdreFwZ3HLlGLJ9eUtoFXNyzNMeSw6greCZWnmfi1e5P48oqnw-2Bqav67DkKJLwIU1j1ptfjHIykrvXq3HOdx1WFP6MYkdgwqwJwkLzm-2BFdstAwKSWEOAPQZH2szFWNZT-2Fh2zRjqA-3D" alt="" width="1" height="1" border="0" class="" style="height: 1px !important; width: 1px !important; border-width: 0px !important; margin: 0px !important; padding: 0px !important;"></div>--rbÚḟîẁ<br class="">íz{CÊhĠ+bḃx§)Ŷ_______________________________________________<br class="">swift-evolution mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class="">https://lists.swift.org/ma</div></blockquote></div><br class=""><img src="https://u2002410.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/open?upn=Nx4azSK1BGdaHBb7cpsx9rYgH3BOpNV-2BrqXtX8ruQwyPTsUYPpLQWeY-2FSmg9TJLuB9KVhlL2BkvKzinaEv6zdzUezPsp3SwHE693IHVjmFVJSughZxjJ7cvmftRfqXtYzNOjm9ilxgCsQ0jcgLHuwmRQ1WP0x2Zql9-2BecmGFggB62liyrxBhEI6sSHD9yzB43lTJkLtvqRQwXERbofUUuQq8NsbGSGYPF7hj6EdLAio-3D" alt="" width="1" height="1" border="0" style="height: 1px !important; width: 1px !important; border-width: 0px !important; margin: 0px !important; padding: 0px !important;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>_______________________________________________<br>swift-evolution mailing list<br>swift-evolution@swift.org<br>https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution<br></div></div></span></blockquote></div></body></html>