<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">If we change anything based on this, I’d suggest the simpler change of removing `if let`/`while let` and renaming `if case`/`while case` to `if let`/`while let`. Since Swift now has the ? pattern type to mean optional binding, it means that all existing instances of </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> if let foo = bar {</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">become the almost-identical</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> if let foo? = bar {</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">That said, I’m not convinced we actually have to change anything, but if we do change anything, this seems like the change to make. Of course, it doesn’t actually solve the original poster’s problem of wanting to type less when shadowing an optional value, but I agree completely with Chris Lattner that the goal of Swift is not to be terse but to be readable.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">-Kevin Ballard</div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 3, 2015, at 9:15 PM, Sean Heber <<a href="mailto:sean@fifthace.com" class="">sean@fifthace.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div class="">I am obviously biased in favor of a new keyword/construct for this. :) The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that the intent of these scenarios should be conveyed in the code clearly so it is easily seen by future maintainers of that code. It may also help to guide the design of code in the same way that guard seems to alter how I now think about writing a function.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In any event, it is clear that there is a strong desire to solve a pain point, assuming we have correctly identified what pain, exactly, we are trying to solve. :)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">l8r</div><div class="">Sean<br class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class="">On Dec 3, 2015, at 10:57 PM, Zef Houssney <<a href="mailto:zefmail@gmail.com" class="">zefmail@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class="">Interesting thoughts! And thanks for the consideration Chris. Just a couple more thoughts and I’ll drop this :)<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Chris, I love the way you put this:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><span class="" style="display: inline !important;">Since code is read more often than it is written, the real goal behind Swift is to let you write “more readable code” by eliminating boilerplate and other noise.</span></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In my view, this proposal is aligned with that goal and it’s as much about readability as anything. I find this first example so much more readable at a glance, and I consider the duplicate names and equals sign to be in the boilerplate/noise category:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><pre style="box-sizing: border-box; overflow: auto; font-family: Consolas, 'Liberation Mono', Menlo, Courier, monospace; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; line-height: 1.45; padding: 16px; background-color: rgb(247, 247, 247); border-top-left-radius: 3px; border-top-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-left-radius: 3px; word-wrap: normal; word-break: normal; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-size: 13px;" class=""><span class="pl-k" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(167, 29, 93);">if</span> <span class="pl-k" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(167, 29, 93);">let</span> thing, otherThing, moreThings <span class="pl-k" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(167, 29, 93);">where</span> thing <span class="pl-k" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(167, 29, 93);">></span> <span class="pl-c1" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(0, 134, 179);">0</span> { }</pre><pre style="box-sizing: border-box; overflow: auto; font-family: Consolas, 'Liberation Mono', Menlo, Courier, monospace; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; line-height: 1.45; padding: 16px; background-color: rgb(247, 247, 247); border-top-left-radius: 3px; border-top-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-left-radius: 3px; word-wrap: normal; word-break: normal; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-size: 13px;" class=""><span class="pl-k" style="line-height: 1.45; box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(167, 29, 93);">if</span><span style="line-height: 1.45;" class=""> </span><span class="pl-k" style="line-height: 1.45; box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(167, 29, 93);">let</span><span style="line-height: 1.45;" class=""> thing </span><span class="pl-k" style="line-height: 1.45; box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(167, 29, 93);">=</span><span style="line-height: 1.45;" class=""> thing, otherThing </span><span class="pl-k" style="line-height: 1.45; box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(167, 29, 93);">=</span><span style="line-height: 1.45;" class=""> otherThing, moreThings </span><span class="pl-k" style="line-height: 1.45; box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(167, 29, 93);">=</span><span style="line-height: 1.45;" class=""> moreThings </span><span class="pl-k" style="line-height: 1.45; box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(167, 29, 93);">where</span><span style="line-height: 1.45;" class=""> thing </span><span class="pl-k" style="line-height: 1.45; box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(167, 29, 93);">></span><span style="line-height: 1.45;" class=""> </span><span class="pl-c1" style="line-height: 1.45; box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(0, 134, 179);">0</span><span style="line-height: 1.45;" class=""> { }</span></pre></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Kevin, in regard to this:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">Furthermore, to anyone not already familiar with the proposed rule, `if let foo {` is meaningless</blockquote></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I agree with David in that the existing syntax is already at the point where your statement is also true. There is nothing in the current syntax that indicates that you are unwrapping the optional. It’s only through learning or familiarity with other languages that one understands it. The = indicates assignment, but the unwrapping is learned and specific to that context. The jump to this seems super easy to grok.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Also my point isn’t that it’s doing the same thing technically, but that it’s a similar concept — assigning to a constant with the value derived implicitly by the context instead of directly through ‘=‘.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The idea of another keyword like “when” also seems plausible to me, though it’s a much more drastic change.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 3, 2015, at 8:13 PM, Sean Heber <<a href="mailto:sean@fifthace.com" class="">sean@fifthace.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">What about lifting the whole concept out of "if" or "guard" and making a new construct that directly communicates the intent?</div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">For example:</div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">when foo { ... }</div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">Which could be combined with "where" to generate an if-like construct:</div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">when foo where foo.isSomething { ... }</div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">Inside the code block, you can access foo directly and it isn't shadowed - so if it was a var, it is mutable, etc.</div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">l8r</div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">Sean</div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class="">On Dec 3, 2015, at 8:25 PM, David Waite <<a href="mailto:david@alkaline-solutions.com" class="">david@alkaline-solutions.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><div class="">I might argue that if let is already an odd case; people often read it equivalent to "if (let x=x)”, but “let x=x” has completely different behavior outside the context of an if let statement (I in fact had to try it before I realized it does, in fact, work). Obviously, 'let x=x’ on its own could not have the same behavior.<div class=""><br class=""><div class="">In that spirit, I propose an alternative feature:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">if foo? { … }</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">where the variable is not shadowed by a copy - instead, inside the block it behaves as an implicit unwrapped optional, including keeping any mutability.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">so for example:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"><span class="" style="color: rgb(169, 169, 169);"> </span>func foo(x:Int?) { </div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"><span class="" style="color: rgb(169, 169, 169);"> </span> if var x = x { // var so it can be assigned</div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"><span class="" style="color: rgb(169, 169, 169);"> </span> x++ </div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"><span class="" style="color: rgb(169, 169, 169);"> </span> } </div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"><span class="" style="color: rgb(169, 169, 169);"> </span> print(x) </div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; color: rgb(169, 169, 169);"> <span class="" style="">} </span></div></div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; color: rgb(169, 169, 169);"><span class="" style=""><br class=""></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; color: rgb(169, 169, 169);"><span class="" style="">foo(1) // => 1, updating the aliased x does not do anything</span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; color: rgb(169, 169, 169);"><span class="" style=""><br class=""></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; color: rgb(169, 169, 169);"><span class="" style=""># working code in Swift 1.2</span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; line-height: normal;"><font face="Menlo" class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 11px;"> func bar(x:Int?) { <br class=""> var y=x <br class=""> if let x=x { <br class=""> y=x+1 <br class=""> } <br class=""> print(y) <br class=""> } <br class=""></span></font></div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; line-height: normal;"><div class="">bar(1) # => Optional(2)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; color: rgb(169, 169, 169);"><span class="" style=""># proposed</span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; color: rgb(169, 169, 169);"><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;"><div class="" style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;">func proposed(x:Int?) {</div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"> var y = x // since swift 3 won't have var function arguments</div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"><span class="" style="color: rgb(169, 169, 169);"> </span> if y? { // var so it can be assigned</div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"><span class="" style="color: rgb(169, 169, 169);"> </span> y++ </div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"><span class="" style="color: rgb(169, 169, 169);"> </span> } </div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"><span class="" style="color: rgb(169, 169, 169);"> </span> print(y) </div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; color: rgb(169, 169, 169);"> <span class="" style="">} </span></div><div class=""><span class="" style=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span class="" style="">proposed(1) // => Optional(2)</span></div><div class=""><span class="" style=""><br class=""></span></div></div></div><div class="">-DW</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 3, 2015, at 3:42 PM, Chris Lattner <<a href="mailto:clattner@apple.com" class="">clattner@apple.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;">“if let foo {“ is a frequently proposed extension to the syntax, but it is not one that we’re likely to ever add.</span><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;">I agree that this is a common pattern, and it would allow you to “write less code”, but that isn’t the goal of Swift. Since code is read more often than it is written, the real goal behind Swift is to let you write “more readable code” by eliminating boilerplate and other noise.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;">Reducing syntax isn’t itself a goal, particularly if the result could/would be confusing for someone who has to read and maintain your code later.</span><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;">-Chris</span><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div><img src="https://u2002410.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/open?upn=CzM39owGTpkJ1zyGXnrRVEXja65D5KHvjV3-2BNib8-2FAKnkgf4b7twADRpfJDRbUOb8EUY9KPcK-2BF-2F5k08SA-2FcLcnZV6HMYK0sZ8em5ZT70hH5ulQkMBX0nrkRmmolFdVFvH2ELdrwYbnLzlY-2BP0Y82RbLqWonVVbuI5igD-2FoEyilmsjWkGhy9rX31P1kc4vQgk1eF8j3dRjFUIQBepMLetDY9A8N8Ej0YkrRYhQb3DZ8-3D" alt="" width="1" height="1" border="0" style="height: 1px !important; 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