[swift-evolution] [Draft] Rename Sequence.elementsEqual
xiaodi.wu at gmail.com
Sun Oct 15 23:58:45 CDT 2017
On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 8:51 PM, Jonathan Hull <jhull at gbis.com> wrote:
> On Oct 14, 2017, at 10:48 PM, Xiaodi Wu <xiaodi.wu at gmail.com> wrote:
>> That ordering can be arbitrary, but it shouldn’t leak internal
>>> representation such that the method used to create identical things affects
>>> the outcome of generic methods because of differences in internal
>>>> It would be better to say that the iteration order is well-defined.
>>>> That will almost always mean documented, and usually predictable though
>>>> obviously e.g. RNGs and iterating in random order will not be predictable
>>>> by design.
>>>>> That's actually more semantically constrained than what Swift calls a
>>>>> `Collection` (which requires conforming types to be multi-pass and(?)
>>>>> finite). By contrast, Swift's `SpongeBob` protocol explicitly permits
>>>>> conforming single-pass, infinite, and/or unordered types.
>>>>> I think you’re talking about Sequence here, I’ve lost track of your
>>>>> nonsense by now. Yes, the current Swift protocol named Sequence allows
>>>>> unordered types. You seem to keep asserting that but not actually
>>>>> addressing my argument, which is *that allowing Sequences to be
>>>>> unordered with the current API is undesired and actively harmful, and
>>>>> should* *therefore** be changed*.
>>>> What is harmful about it?
>>>> After thinking about it, I think the harmful bit is that unordered
>>>> sequences are leaking internal representation (In your example, this is
>>>> causing people to be surprised when two sets with identical elements are
>>>> generating different sequences/orderings based on how they were created).
>>>> You are correct when you say that this problem is even true for for-in.
>>> I would not say it is a problem. Rather, by definition, iteration
>>> involves retrieving one element after another; if you're allowed to do that
>>> with Set, then the elements of a Set are observably ordered in some way.
>>> Since it's not an OrderedSet--i.e., order doesn't matter--then the only
>>> sensible conclusion is that the order of elements obtained in a for...in
>>> loop must be arbitrary. If you think this is harmful, then you must believe
>>> that one should be prohibited from iterating over an instance of Set.
>>> Otherwise, Set is inescapably a Sequence by the Swift definition of
>>> Sequence. All extension methods on Sequence like drop(while:) are really
>>> just conveniences for common things that you can do with iterated access;
>>> to my mind, they're essentially just alternative ways of spelling various
>>> for...in loops.
>>> I think an argument could be made that you shouldn’t be able to iterate
>>> over a set without first defining an ordering on it (even if that ordering
>>> is somewhat arbitrary). Maybe we have something like a “Sequenc(e)able”
>>> protocol which defines things which can be turned into a sequence when
>>> combined with some sort of ordering. One possible ordering could be the
>>> internal representation (At least in that case we are calling it out
>>> specifically). If I had to say “setA.arbitraryOrder.elementsEqual(setB.arbitraryOrder)”
>>> I would definitely be less surprised when it returns false even though setA
>>> == setB.
>> Well, that's a totally different direction, then; you're arguing that
>> `Set` and `Dictionary` should not conform to `Sequence` altogether. That's
>> fine (it's also a direction that some of us explored off-list a while ago),
>> but at this point in Swift's evolution, realistically, it's not within the
>> realm of possible changes.
>> I am actually suggesting something slightly different. Basically, Set
>> and Dictionary’s conformance to Collection would have a different
>> implementation. They would conform to another protocol declaring that they
>> are unordered. That protocol would fill in part of the conformance to
>> sequence/collection using a default ordering, which is mostly arbitrary,
>> but guaranteed to produce the same ordering for the same list of elements
>> (even across collection types). This would be safer, but a tiny bit slower
>> than what we have now (We could also potentially develop a way for
>> collections like set to amortize the cost). For those who need to recover
>> speed, the new protocol would also define a property which quickly returns
>> a sequence/iterator using the internal ordering (I arbitrarily called it
>> I believe it would not be source breaking.
> That is indeed something slightly different.
> In an ideal world--and my initial understanding of what you were
> suggesting--Set and Dictionary would each have a member like `collection`,
> which would expose the underlying data as a `SetCollection` or
> `DictionaryCollection` that in turn would conform to `Collection`;
> meanwhile, Set and Dictionary themselves would not offer methods such as
> `prefix`, or indexing by subscript, which are not compatible with being
> unordered. For those who want a particular ordering, there'd be something
> like `collection(ordered areInIncreasingOrder: (T, T) -> Bool) ->
> What you suggest here instead would be minimally source-breaking. However,
> I'm unsure of where these guarantees provide benefit to justify the
> performance cost. Certainly not for `first` or `dropFirst(_:)`, which still
> yields an arbitrary result which doesn't make sense for something
> _unordered_. We *could* have an underscored customization point named
> something like `_customOrderingPass` that is only invoked from
> `elementsEqual` or other such methods to pre-rearrange the internal
> ordering of unordered collections in some deterministic way before
> comparison. Is that what you have in mind?
> Something like that. Whatever we do, there will be a tradeoff between
> speed, correctness, and ergonomics.
> My suggestion trades speed for correctness, and provides a way to recover
> speed through additional typing (which is slightly less ergonomic).
You haven't convinced me that this is at all improved in "correctness." It
trades one arbitrary iteration order for another on a type that tries to
model an unordered collection.
> We could do something like you suggest. I don’t think the method would
> need to be underscored… the ordering pass could just be a method on the
> protocol which defines it as unordered. Then we could provide a special
> conformance for things where order really matters based on adherence to
> that protocol. That might be an acceptable tradeoff. It would give us
> speed at the cost of having the correct implementation being less ergonomic
> and more error prone (you have to remember to check that it is unordered
> and call the ordering method when it mattered).
> I’d still be a bit worried that people would make incorrect generic
> algorithms based on expecting an order from unordered things, but at least
> it would be possible for them check and handle it correctly. I think I
> could get behind that tradeoff/compromise, given where we are in the swift
> process and Swift's obsession with speed (though I still slightly prefer
> the safer default). At least the standard library would handle all the
> things correctly, and that is what will affect the majority of programmers.
What is an example of such an "incorrect" generic algorithm that would be
made correct by such a scheme?
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