[swift-evolution] typed throws
xiaodi.wu at gmail.com
Fri Aug 18 18:29:46 CDT 2017
On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 6:19 PM, Matthew Johnson <matthew at anandabits.com>
> On Aug 18, 2017, at 6:15 PM, Xiaodi Wu <xiaodi.wu at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 09:20 Matthew Johnson via swift-evolution <
> swift-evolution at swift.org> wrote:
>> Sent from my iPad
>> On Aug 18, 2017, at 1:27 AM, John McCall <rjmccall at apple.com> wrote:
>> >> On Aug 18, 2017, at 12:58 AM, Chris Lattner via swift-evolution <
>> swift-evolution at swift.org> wrote:
>> >> Splitting this off into its own thread:
>> >>> On Aug 17, 2017, at 7:39 PM, Matthew Johnson <matthew at anandabits.com>
>> >>> One related topic that isn’t discussed is type errors. Many third
>> party libraries use a Result type with typed errors. Moving to an async /
>> await model without also introducing typed errors into Swift would require
>> giving up something that is highly valued by many Swift developers. Maybe
>> Swift 5 is the right time to tackle typed errors as well. I would be happy
>> to help with design and drafting a proposal but would need collaborators on
>> the implementation side.
>> >> Typed throws is something we need to settle one way or the other, and
>> I agree it would be nice to do that in the Swift 5 cycle.
>> >> For the purposes of this sub-discussion, I think there are three kinds
>> of code to think about:
>> >> 1) large scale API like Cocoa which evolve (adding significant
>> functionality) over the course of many years and can’t break clients.
>> >> 2) the public API of shared swiftpm packages, whose lifecycle may rise
>> and fall - being obsoleted and replaced by better packages if they
>> encounter a design problem.
>> >> 3) internal APIs and applications, which are easy to change because
>> the implementations and clients of the APIs are owned by the same people.
>> >> These each have different sorts of concerns, and we hope that
>> something can start out as #3 but work its way up the stack gracefully.
>> >> Here is where I think things stand on it:
>> >> - There is consensus that untyped throws is the right thing for a
>> large scale API like Cocoa. NSError is effectively proven here. Even if
>> typed throws is introduced, Apple is unlikely to adopt it in their APIs for
>> this reason.
>> >> - There is consensus that untyped throws is the right default for
>> people to reach for for public package (#2).
>> >> - There is consensus that Java and other systems that encourage lists
>> of throws error types lead to problematic APIs for a variety of reasons.
>> >> - There is disagreement about whether internal APIs (#3) should use
>> it. It seems perfect to be able to write exhaustive catches in this
>> situation, since everything in knowable. OTOH, this could encourage abuse
>> of error handling in cases where you really should return an enum instead
>> of using throws.
>> >> - Some people are concerned that introducing typed throws would cause
>> people to reach for it instead of using untyped throws for public package
>> > Even for non-public code. The only practical merit of typed throws I
>> have ever seen someone demonstrate is that it would let them use contextual
>> lookup in a throw or catch. People always say "I'll be able to
>> exhaustively switch over my errors", and then I ask them to show me where
>> they want to do that, and they show me something that just logs the error,
>> which of course does not require typed throws. Every. Single. Time.
>> I agree that exhaustive switching over errors is something that people
>> are extremely likely to actually want to do. I also think it's a bit of a
>> red herring. The value of typed errors is *not* in exhaustive switching.
>> It is in categorization and verified documentation.
>> Here is a concrete example that applies to almost every app. When you
>> make a network request there are many things that could go wrong to which
>> you may want to respond differently:
>> * There might be no network available. You might recover by updating the
>> UI to indicate that and start monitoring for a reachability change.
>> * There might have been a server error that should eventually be resolved
>> (500). You might update the UI and provide the user the ability to retry.
>> * There might have been an unrecoverable server error (404). You will
>> update the UI.
>> * There might have been a low level parsing error (bad JSON, etc).
>> Recovery is perhaps similar in nature to #2, but the problem is less likely
>> to be resolved quickly so you may not provide a retry option. You might
>> also want to do something to notify your dev team that the server is
>> returning JSON that can't be parsed.
>> * There might have been a higher-level parsing error (converting JSON to
>> model types). This might be treated the same as bad JSON. On the other
>> hand, depending on the specifics of the app, you might take an alternate
>> path that only parses the most essential model data in hopes that the
>> problem was somewhere else and this parse will succeed.
>> All of this can obviously be accomplished with untyped errors. That
>> said, using types to categorize errors would significantly improve the
>> clarity of such code. More importantly, I believe that by categorizing
>> errors in ways that are most relevant to a specific domain a library
>> (perhaps internal to an app) can encourage developers to think carefully
>> about how to respond.
> I used to be rather in favor of adding typed errors, thinking that it can
> only benefit and seemed reasonable. However, given the very interesting
> discussion here, I'm inclined to think that what you articulate above is
> actually a very good argument _against_ adding typed errors.
> If I may simplify, the gist of the argument advanced by Tino, Charlie, and
> you is that the primary goal is documentation, and that documentation in
> the form of prose is insufficient because it can be unreliable. Therefore,
> you want a way for the compiler to enforce said documentation. (The
> categorization use case, I think, is well addressed by the protocol-based
> design discussed already in this thread.)
> Actually documentation is only one of the goals I have and it is the least
> important. Please see my subsequent reply to John where I articulate the
> four primary goals I have for improved error handling, whether it be typed
> errors or some other mechanism. I am curious to see what you think of the
> goals, as well as what mechanism might best address those goals.
Your other three goals have to do with what you term categorization, unless
I misunderstand. Are those not adequately addressed by Joe Groff's
> However, the compiler itself cannot reward, only punish in the form of
> errors or warnings; if exhaustive switching is a red herring and the payoff
> for typed errors is correct documentation, the effectiveness of this kind
> of compiler enforcement must be directly proportional to the degree of
> extrinsic punishment inflicted by the compiler (since the intrinsic reward
> of correct documentation is the same whether it's spelled using doc
> comments or the type system). This seems like a heavy-handed way to enforce
> documentation of only one specific aspect of a throwing function; moreover,
> if this use case were to be sufficiently compelling, then it's certainly a
> better argument for SourceKit (or some other builtin tool) to automatically
> generate information on all errors thrown than for the compiler to require
> that users declare it themselves--even if opt-in.
> Bad error handling is pervasive. The fact that everyone shows you code
>> that just logs the error is a prime example of this. It should be
>> considered a symptom of a problem, not an acceptable status quo to be
>> maintained. We need all the tools at our disposal to encourage better
>> thinking about and handling of errors. Most importantly, I think we need a
>> middle ground between completely untyped errors and an exhaustive list of
>> every possible error that might happen. I believe a well designed
>> mechanism for categorizing errors in a compiler-verified way can do exactly
>> In many respects, there are similarities to this in the design of
>> `NSError` which provides categorization via the error domain. This
>> categorization is a bit more broad than I think is useful in many cases,
>> but it is the best example I'm aware of.
>> The primary difference between error domains and the kind of
>> categorization I am proposing is that error domains categorize based on the
>> source of an error whereas I am proposing categorization driven by likely
>> recovery strategies. Recovery is obviously application dependent, but I
>> think the example above demonstrates that there are some useful
>> generalizations that can be made (especially in an app-specific library),
>> even if they don't apply everywhere.
>> > Sometimes we then go on to have a conversation about wrapping errors in
>> other error types, and that can be interesting, but now we're talking about
>> adding a big, messy feature just to get "safety" guarantees for a fairly
>> minor need.
>> I think you're right that wrapping errors is tightly related to an
>> effective use of typed errors. You can do a reasonable job without
>> language support (as has been discussed on the list in the past). On the
>> other hand, if we're going to introduce typed errors we should do it in a
>> way that *encourages* effective use of them. My opinion is that
>> encouraging effect use means categorizing (wrapping) errors without
>> requiring any additional syntax beyond the simple `try` used by untyped
>> errors. In practice, this means we should not need to catch and rethrow an
>> error if all we want to do is categorize it. Rust provides good prior art
>> in this area.
>> > Programmers often have an instinct to obsess over error taxonomies that
>> is very rarely directed at solving any real problem; it is just
>> self-imposed busy-work.
>> I agree that obsessing over intricate taxonomies is counter-productive
>> and should be discouraged. On the other hand, I hope the example I
>> provided above can help to focus the discussion on a practical use of types
>> to categorize errors in a way that helps guide *thinking* and therefore
>> improves error handling in practice.
>> >> - Some people think that while it might be useful in some narrow
>> cases, the utility isn’t high enough to justify making the language more
>> complex (complexity that would intrude on the APIs of result types,
>> futures, etc)
>> >> I’m sure there are other points in the discussion that I’m forgetting.
>> >> One thing that I’m personally very concerned about is in the systems
>> programming domain. Systems code is sort of the classic example of code
>> that is low-level enough and finely specified enough that there are lots of
>> knowable things, including the failure modes.
>> > Here we are using "systems" to mean "embedded systems and kernels".
>> And frankly even a kernel is a large enough system that they don't want to
>> exhaustively switch over failures; they just want the static guarantees
>> that go along with a constrained error type.
>> >> Beyond expressivity though, our current model involves boxing thrown
>> values into an Error existential, something that forces an implicit memory
>> allocation when the value is large. Unless this is fixed, I’m very
>> concerned that we’ll end up with a situation where certain kinds of systems
>> code (i.e., that which cares about real time guarantees) will not be able
>> to use error handling at all.
>> >> JohnMC has some ideas on how to change code generation for ‘throws’ to
>> avoid this problem, but I don’t understand his ideas enough to know if they
>> are practical and likely to happen or not.
>> > Essentially, you give Error a tagged-pointer representation to allow
>> payload-less errors on non-generic error types to be allocated globally,
>> and then you can (1) tell people to not throw errors that require
>> allocation if it's vital to avoid allocation (just like we would tell them
>> today not to construct classes or indirect enum cases) and (2) allow a
>> special global payload-less error to be substituted if error allocation
>> > Of course, we could also say that systems code is required to use a
>> typed-throws feature that we add down the line for their purposes. Or just
>> tell them to not use payloads. Or force them to constrain their error
>> types to fit within some given size. (Note that obsessive error taxonomies
>> tend to end up with a bunch of indirect enum cases anyway, because they get
>> recursive, so the allocation problem is very real whatever we do.)
>> > John.
>> swift-evolution mailing list
>> swift-evolution at swift.org
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