[swift-evolution] [planning] [discussion] Schedule for return of closure parameter labels (+ world domination ramble)

Mathew Huusko V mhuusko5 at gmail.com
Tue Aug 8 12:44:01 CDT 2017

Sorry to revive this, but back on my ABI stability education:

Swift 5 planning was announced today (woohoo!) with a primary target on ABI
stability. Finalising generics seems to be a major part of this, with
"conditional conformances", "recursive protocol requirements," and "there
are no known other generics enhancements needed for ABI stability" as key

But it seems like there's quite a bit more left in the generics manifesto
unimplemented. Perhaps some of what's in there is controversial, but
something like generalised existentials afaik *is/was* planned.. can
someone explain how GE doesn't affect ABI stability?
To my very naive mind it's not that different from some other things said
to affect ABI, and to my slightly less naive mind, I believe it was going
to enable a protocol oriented approach to KeyPaths in the future, which
seems like it would affect ABI of stdlib.

I'm quite sure I'm missing the core concept at this point, so I'd be
content with my examples being ignored and just pointing me towards a
general/educational resource on ABI vs. interface thats vaguely compatible
with Swift.


On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 6:18 PM, Chris Lattner <clattner at nondot.org> wrote:

> > On Aug 7, 2017, at 11:34 PM, Elviro Rocca <
> retired.hunter.djura at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I agree with everything you wrote, in particular I agree with the idea
> that it is more important to get the big efforts right, and that they
> should take priority. But I would consider a distinction:
> >
> > - big efforts that add huge new features to the language so that things
> that were done in userland with libraries can be done natively and
> idiomatically (concurrent programming, for example);
> > - more "theoretical" big efforts, that allow one, while building a
> single app or a big library, to "express" more things more precisely in the
> language, and improvements to the generics and protocols systems fall in
> this second realm;
> >
> > The reason why I consider the second kind of feature as more important
> than the first (thus, earning higher priority) is that, apart from reducing
> the amount of busywork to be done in many cases where the abstraction power
> is not good enough, it gives more tools for the community to build upon, it
> allows many people to do more with the language than probably me, you and
> the core team have ever though of, it fosters the explosion of creativity
> that's only possible when a language is expressive enough and it's not only
> based on certain conventions (that, by definition, constraint the way a
> language is commonly used).
> MHO is that both are important.  I think the details of the tradeoffs
> involved prioritizing the individual members of those categories are bigger
> than the difference between the two categories.  I don’t think this is a
> useful way to try to slice the problem up.
> -Chris
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