[swift-evolution] [swift-users] Plan to move swift-evolution and swift-users mailing lists to Discourse
Rien at Balancingrock.nl
Thu Feb 9 11:48:55 CST 2017
> On 09 Feb 2017, at 18:29, Cihat Gündüz via swift-evolution <swift-evolution at swift.org> wrote:
> @Jan: Your arguments are very subjective if not even insulting and derogatory to many people who invest a lot of time and effort in crafting those things you despise so openly. Here are just a few example quotes for you to reflect your language:
> "I despise fp“, „is so annoying“, "made Swift imo a worse language“, "I hate ‚modern' or as I call it ugly“, "Today’s standards are a bag of pain“, "crappy sites als Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Stackoverflow, add lots of other 'cool' sites“, "I can’t stand scrolling“, "I hate both“, "todays absolutely useless crap“, …
> Please be aware that this behavior is against the Code of Conduct of the Swift Community. Let’s try to stay objective and justify different opinions rationally instead of personally. Of course it is valid for you to say that you don’t like FP or that you don’t like how the world is changing in general. But please be aware that you have to add the reason why you think it is so in detail, so we understand your thinking and can overcome changes to the wrong direction. Senctences like „I despise FP“ without any explanation are not a form of constructive feedback though, nobody will learn anything from that kind of thing. Currently you’re merely expressing your anger here, no more, no less.
I don’t think he did. He expressed his opinions rather forcefully, but we all tick different. He did not call anybody out specifically.
And just because somebody spend a lot of time on something does not make it great. And maybe they need to hear it this way to “get the message”. Sugar coating can do a lot of harm.
Btw: this does remind me of some of things I heard about a former -too early deceased- leader of apple...
> @Jens: One of the biggest reasons I’m all for Discourse is the fact that it’s open source. What this implies is: You know exactly what happens with the data you save there, and, there is no dependency on a third-party service which could change or even close over time. This is why I’m against groups.io, GitHub Issues or any other non-open source solution. What it also means is: If the open source tool we decided to go for (Discourse) doesn’t have good support for emails yet, we can implement it ourselves, improve the existing support or add a bridge to another open source tool that can deal with that.
> Cihat Gündüz
> Am 9. Februar 2017 um 15:59:33, Jan Neumüller via swift-evolution (swift-evolution at swift.org) schrieb:
>> Well, if the community likes it so much. Have fun with it. I will leave as I have left the Developer Forums at Apple because they became unusable.
>>> On 9 Feb 2017, at 15:17, Adrian Zubarev <adrian.zubarev at devandartist.com> wrote:
>>> The quote below made my day dear Swift friend as I might remind you that if modern is associated with hate in your mind, then the modern programming language called Swift would probably be a bad choice.
>> I starting to think that myself. I was very active at the beginning of Swift (way before the open sourcing) but I absolutely don’t like the increasing influence of functional programming on it. I despise fp and don’t want it in Swift. If people want it that much use Haskell 8(
>>> I might remind everyone that Discourse is open sourced and therefore tweaks are possible. If you prefer a consistent font like on swift.org, than spell it out and help to create a corner on the web where every Swiftier feels right at home.
>>> Personally I’d prefer (if possible) that we’d remove profile pictures from the forum and simply have only full names (colored?) + some kind of annotation (e.g. Core Team, etc.). Profile pictures are only gimmicks that does not contribute to anything at all.
>>> As Jan already said, the font (and font-size?) of the forum could match the font from swift.org if possible. I wouldn’t mind and it’d make it a little bit more alike.
>> You don’t have to care for me - Swift 4 will be the deciding step if I throw any Swift work away and return to Objective-C. The heavy functional programming push since open sourcing is so annoying and made Swift imo a worse language.
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