[swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

[Jacob Bandes-Storch]

On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 1:32 PM, Douglas Gregor via swift-evolution <
swift-evolution at swift.org> wrote:

>
> On Jan 25, 2017, at 12:05 PM, Ted Kremenek via swift-evolution <
> swift-evolution at swift.org> wrote:
>
> I have no problem with the project moving to forums instead of the Mailman
> mailing lists we have now — if it is the right set of tradeoffs.
>
> My preference is to approach the topic objectively, working from goals and
> seeing how the mailing lists are aligning with those goals and how an
> alternative, such as Discourse, might do a better job.
>
> The current use of mailing lists has been carry-over of how both LLVM does
> public discussion (which is all mailing lists) and how the Swift team at
> Apple has used mailing lists for discussion.  That inertia has benefits in
> that it is a familiar workflow that is “proven” to work — but the doesn’t
> mean it is the best option going forward.
>
> Here are some of the things that matter to me:
>
> - Topics are easy to manage and search, with stable URLs for archives.
>
> - It is easy to reference other topics with a stable (canonical) URL that
> allows you to jump into that other topic easily.  That’s hard to do if you
> haven’t already been subscribed to the list.
>
> - Works fine with email clients, for those who want to keep that workflow
> (again this inertia is important).
>
> - Code formatting, and other tools that add clarity in communication, are
> a huge plus.
>
> I’d like to understand more the subjective comments on this thread, such
> as "may intimidate newcomers”.  This feels very subjective, and while I am
> not disagreeing with that statement I don’t fully understand its
> justification.  Signing up for mailing lists is fairly straightforward, and
> one isn’t obligated to respond to threads.  Are forums really any less
> “intimating”? If so, why is that the case?  Is this simply a statement
> about mailing lists not being in vogue?
>
> I do also think the asynchronous nature of the mailing lists is important,
> as opposed to discussions feeling like a live chat.  Live chat, such as the
> use of Slack the SwiftPM folks have been using, is very useful too, but I
> don’t want participants on swift-evolution or any of our mailing lists feel
> obligated to respond in real time — that’s simply not the nature of the
> communication on the lists.
>
> So in short, using mailing lists specifically is not sacred — we can
> change what we use for our community discussions.  I just want an objective
> evaluation of the needs the mailing lists are meant to serve, and work from
> there.  If moving to something like (say) Discourse would be a negative on
> a critical piece that is well-served by the mailing lists, that would (in
> my opinion) a bad direction to take.  I’m not saying that is the case, just
> that this is how I prefer we approach the discussion.
>
>
> I’ve looked into Discourse a bit, and it does look very promising. One
> *specific* way in which a motivated individual could help would be to take
> a look at Discourse’s import scripts
> <https://github.com/discourse/discourse/tree/master/script/import_scripts> and
> try importing swift-evolution’s mailing archives with them. We absolutely
> do not want to lose history when we switch technologies. Do the messages
> import well? Are threading and topics maintained in a reasonable manner?
> Does Discourse provide effective UI for looking into past discussions on
> some specific topic we’re interested in?
>
> - Doug
>

I'd be willing to put some time into trying this. But the relevant import
script is for mbox files
<https://meta.discourse.org/t/import-mailman-archives-into-discourse/18537/9?u=jtbandes>.
Is it possible to publicly share the data files from the swift-evolution
mailman installation, so someone can try importing them?
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