[swift-evolution] Dynamic Class/Struct Definition At Run Time

David Hart david at hartbit.com
Wed Oct 12 16:38:10 CDT 2016

Hi Ted,

My replies inline:

> On 12 Oct 2016, at 22:37, Ted F.A. van Gaalen <tedvgiosdev at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi David,
> Thanks for your reply., OK, I think I understand. 
> It then is a capacity problem, right?

Mainly. We lived through a few months where there was very little focus, and everybody brought up all kind of ideas. It was great, but it was also very chaotic. Many proposals were accepted, but the implementation for them was a rush and a few couldn’t make it in the final release of Swift 3.

I think the decision of focusing releases is to improve the evolution process by trying to make sure we set the right priorities and to make them attainable. For example, if we do not focus on ABI stability, Swift 4 will not be able to set the ABI in stone, which would disappoint many many people.

> In effect, it means restricting people from bringing perhaps very valuable 
> (not necessarily my contributions) 
> and essential ideas forward, which could play a crucial role improving Swift.

Not necessarily restrict. But politely ask them to keep a hold of those ideas until a more appropriate phase of Swift’s development allows those kind of proposals.

> I think this is a very negative aspect. surely bouncing creative people away,
> dropping their efforts and interest here altogether. 

We try to be as kind and positive as possible as not to bounce create ideas away. But I think it is also important that we explain the priorities of the evolution process through time so Swift can move forward.

> The question then remains, where / when / how can one bring topics 
> that are taking a longer stretch and are not bound to a certain release of Swift,
> seemingly “outside” of this restriction under attention?

It all depends on the focus at the time. For example, the swift evolution README states that phase 2 of Swift 4 will allow new features to be discussed and implemented:

Stage 2 will commence once the implementation work on the Stage 1 features is cresting, and can contain a few other large and small features. We expect that stage 2 will commence some time in Spring 2017.

> if swift evolution is (currently? ) not open for new ideas/topics:
> I thought that was the primary purpose of Swift evolution?

The purpose of Swift evolution as I understand it is to bring ideas, proposals and discuss them to push Swift forward in line with the project priorities at the time. You can, for example, bring new features and topics forward now, but they need to concern ABI stability. For example, we are looking at the remaining Generics features which will allow the Standard Library to take its final form.


> Kind Regards
> Ted
>> On 12 Oct 2016, at 21:48, David Hart <david at hartbit.com <mailto:david at hartbit.com>> wrote:
>> Hello Ted,
>> Please try to understand. As Xiaodi and others have said a few times, it has nothing to do with the topic being important or interesting. The current phase of Swift 4’s development does not allow any extensive discussion or review on topics which do not impact ABI stability:
>> Stage 1 focuses on the essentials required for source and ABI stability. Features that don't fundamentally change the ABI of existing language features or imply an ABI-breaking change to the standard library will not be considered in this stage.
>>> On 12 Oct 2016, at 19:14, Ted F.A. van Gaalen via swift-evolution <swift-evolution at swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>> wrote:
>>> Apart from my perhaps fierce reaction, I am not aware of doing something wrong.
>>> and I still find this topic very important. 
>> David.

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