[swift-evolution] [Swift4] Mailing list vs. Forum

[Felipe Cypriano]

+1 for moving all from email because of all that has been said, any
decent forum would be better really but I also love Discourse and would
love to have Swift discussions officially through it.

Hirundo looks really really nice but to me it is an example of how email
is not enough, not the opposite.

On Sat, Jul 30, 2016, at 11:42, Tim Vermeulen via swift-evolution wrote:
> Does ZenHub have something that even remotely looks like a
> forum? I can’t
> find anything like that on their website. Or is your suggestion that
> we
> move all of swift-evo directly to GitHub?
>
>> I'm open to ZenHub that can be integrate as part of GitHub for
>> discussion, pull changes and it makes it easier to reference to
>> the patches within ZenHub than from Discourse or other forums.
>> Swiftly right?
>>
>> https://www.zenhub.com
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 10:10 AM, Tim Vermeulen via swift-evolution<swift-evolution at swift.org(mailto:swift-
>> evolution at swift.org)>wrote:
>>> +1. Hirundo makes this format bearable, but it is still far from
>>> ideal. I see many advantages for using Discourse:
>>>
>>> - It has actual syntax highlighting.
>>> - It’s easier to moderate.
>>> - It supports real-time updates.
>>> - It’s easier to follow the flow of a conversation.
>>> - It has better search.
>>>
>>> I don’t doubt more people will take part in the Swift evolution
>>> process if we switch to Discourse.
>>>
>>>> Branching...
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 5:22 PM, Chris Lattner via swift-evolution<swift-evolution at swift.org(mailto:swift-
>>>> evolution at swift.org)(mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org)>wrote:
>>>>> On Jul 29, 2016, at 5:14 PM, Brandon Knope<bknope at me.com(mailto:b-
>>>>> knope at me.com)(mailto:bknope at me.com)>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris, has the core team discussed opening up a forum for
>>>>>> discussing proposal implementations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some of us aren't as skilled as the core team or other
>>>>>> contributors but would like to learn. A forum is a much easier
>>>>>> place for us to post for code help and to help others with their
>>>>>> questions. I think this could help get more involved as it would
>>>>>> be a more comfortable format for them. Think of how there are
>>>>>> Apple Developer forums and not mailing lists for iOS betas etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not saying moving swift-evo to forums **yet** but I believe
>>>>>> a lot of the newer programmers are more comfortable with a forum
>>>>>> format, especially when it comes to help and discussing code.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Forums for contributors would:
>>>>>> - be more familiar for a lot of the newer and not as experienced
>>>>>>   developers
>>>>>> - be easier to search
>>>>>> - be easier to moderate (not really a problem yet)
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Brandon,
>>>>>
>>>>> Moving from email to a forum system has come up before, but they
>>>>> have some disadvantages.One of major wins of email is that it is
>>>>> pervasive and can be adapted into other forms.For example, if you
>>>>> haven’t seen it yet, check out:
>>>>> https://stylemac.com/hirundo/
>>>>>
>>>>> -Chris
>>>>>
>>>> We've discussed forums on swift-evolution before. Maybe it's time
>>>> for another go, with Swift 3 winding down.
>>>>
>>>> For context, prior discussions are on this thread:
>>>> https://lists.swift.org/pipermail/swift-evolution/Week-of-Mon-20151207/001537.html
>>>>
>>>> (-1 for mailman: it's hard for me to even properly find&link to all
>>>> the prior discussion about mailing lists, because of how mailman's
>>>> archive works...)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> News in the last few days is that Gmane is at least temporarily disappearing:
>>>> https://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2016/07/28/the-end-of-gmane/comment-page-1/#comment-13502
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'd just like to vote once again forDiscourse
>>>> (http://www.discourse.org/faq/#what):-Excellentweb interface
>>>> (https://meta.discourse.org/), from the people who brought you
>>>> Stack Overflow(built-in search, etc.)
>>>> - Read via email if that's your thing: it has "mailing list mode"
>>>>   which includes 1-email-per-post, if that's your cup of tea
>>>> -Reply via email
>>>> (https://meta.discourse.org/t/replacing-mailing-lists-email-in/13099)
>>>> ifthat's[1] your thing
>>>> - It'sopen source(https://github.com/discourse/discourse)itself
>>>> - I believe it has ways of getting content as JSON and/or RSS, so
>>>>   I'd hardly say "can be adapted into other forms" is an exclusive
>>>>   feature of email.
>>>>
>>>> And, Discourse providesfree hosting for community-friendly open-
>>>> source projects
>>>> (http://blog.discourse.org/2016/03/free-discourse-forum-hosting-for-community-friendly-github-projects/)
>>>> . Istrongly suspect
>>>> (https://twitter.com/jtbandes/status/705886542309363712)Swiftwould
>>>> qualify for this.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There have been several people on this list arguing in favor of
>>>> mailing lists — I encourage folks to go read the old thread for
>>>> themselves.
>>>>
>>>> It's worth noting there are also plenty of voices that don't get
>>>> heard on this list, because people just don't like using mailing
>>>> lists. One example:
>>>> https://twitter.com/pilky/status/755105431555608580_______________________________________________
>>>> swift-evolution mailing list
>>>> swift-evolution at swift.org(mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org)
>>>> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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Links:

  1. https://meta.discourse.org/t/replacing-mailing-lists-email-in/13099)ifthat%27s
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