[swift-evolution] [Swift4] Priorities and Sugar

[Erica Sadun]

> On Jul 29, 2016, at 5:43 PM, Chris Lattner <clattner at apple.com> wrote:
> 
> On Jul 29, 2016, at 4:26 PM, Erica Sadun <erica at ericasadun.com> wrote:
>> Things I'd like to see:
>> 
>> * On the Swift Evolution repository site, a wish list from core engineers, with a précis for each topic, a priority estimate, and contact information for the team (which can be none through "willing to mentor"). Using a central document is key. Placing requests on-list means they get lost within a day or two and cannot be updated in one place. 
> 
> I expect/hope each of the topics listed in the email to turn into active threads of discussion.  If you or others have questions about them, feel free to ask now.  That said, major design work on them probably won’t kick off in earnest until Swift 3 is closer to being out the door.

A single asynchronously updated document can host ideas that may not yet be ready for the development timeline. I'm not saying they shouldn't also appear in threads, but I'd like to see an Apple-sourced wishlist given equal status with formal proposals. There is *so* much traffic on-list, and a lot gets lost. I speak as someone who has a vested interest in keeping on top of what's happening on-list.

> 
>> * At the same time, I'd like to see regular posted updates on-list (announcement, or evolution) about the bigger picture goals: for example, neglected items that need some contributor love
> 
> Makes sense.
> 
>> * A way to submit pitches for early design review intervention on a regular calendar, so pitches without legs get cut off early and mercifully, and traffic is reduced.
> 
> I’m not sure what you mean by this.

Remember the design review meetings that reviewed proposals and gave feedback? (e.g. http://ericasadun.com/2016/03/16/behind-the-scenes-swift-core-team-design-discussion-315/) It seems like a huge amount of effort, late in the process. It would be great to step back to a less developed preliminary proposal (say 1-2 paragraphs), that gets thumbs up/down without so much investment of list and team resources on a regular design review schedule. I'm thinking "early intervention".

> 
>> * A deferred proposals folder where people can place low-priority (for example, "sugar") items, to clear them from their heads, from the pull queue. Add in some structure for discussion, whether on a separate swift.org pipermail list, on github, or on-list using a well-specified tag that can be filtered out for those who need more on-topic bandwidth.
> 
> The core team discussed this and specifically does not want to do this.  The proposal template will change year over year, as will the goals for the releases.  There are plenty of places to post speculative ideas (blogs, personal github repos, etc).  Hosting them as an official part of the swift project doesn’t seem productive unless they are blessed, filtered, or somehow endorsed.

Understood.

> 
>> * Swift-academy outreach for those of us who can code but fall somewhere between starter bugs and full contribution.
> 
> I’m also not sure what you mean by this, but it sounds interesting!

Ted's email (https://lists.swift.org/pipermail/swift-evolution/Week-of-Mon-20160725/025587.html) highlighted the gap between designing ideas and writing code. Or as you wrote, "Software scheduling (particularly with open source) continues to be difficult-to-impossible to predict." Outreach (maybe through slack?) could help guide almost-but-not-quite-there devs, specifically working on swift coding.

-- E