[swift-evolution] [Draft][Proposal] Formalized Ordering

Dave Abrahams dabrahams at apple.com
Fri Jul 22 21:05:37 CDT 2016


on Fri Jul 22 2016, Jaden Geller <swift-evolution at swift.org> wrote:

> "The totalOrder predicate will order these cases, and it also
> distinguishes between different representations of NaNs and between
> the same decimal floating point number encoded in different ways."
> - [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_floating_point#Total-ordering_predicate)
>
> Sounds like `===` should not return `true` for zeros of different signs, then.

Right.

>> On Jul 22, 2016, at 6:48 PM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution
>> <swift-evolution at swift.org> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> on Fri Jul 22 2016, Jaden Geller
>> <swift-evolution at swift.org
>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>>> For floating point, I'd hope that `a === b` if `(a <=> b) == .same`
>>>> *but not iff*. This is to satisfy IEEE 754: "Comparisons shall
>>>> ignore the sign of zero (so +0 = −0)".
>>> 
>>> I don't see why both `(+0) === (-0)` and `(+0) <=> (-0)` can't return
>>> `true` and `.same`, respectively. This doesn't break the total
>>> ordering of values. `===` doesn't do raw memory comparison. They're
>>> "identical", so it ought to return `true`.
>> 
>> It ought to do whatever IEEE-754 specifies that its total ordering test
>> does.  That is, IEEE-754 gets to decide whether the difference between
>> +0 and -0 is “essential” to IEEE-754 floating point types, or not.
>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 22, 2016, at 6:37 PM, Xiaodi Wu via swift-evolution
>>>> <swift-evolution at swift.org
>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 8:20 PM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution
>>>> <swift-evolution at swift.org
>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>
>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org
>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> on Fri Jul 22 2016, Daniel Duan <daniel-AT-duan.org <http://daniel-at-duan.org/>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 22, 2016, at 3:00 PM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution
>>>>>> <swift-evolution at swift.org
>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>
>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org
>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> on Fri Jul 22 2016, Daniel Duan
>>>>>> <swift-evolution at swift.org
>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>
>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org
>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>>
>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org
>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>
>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org
>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Jul 22, 2016, at 11:05 AM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution
>>>>>>>> <swift-evolution at swift.org
>>>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org
>>>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org
>>>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org
>>>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>>>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> on Thu Jul 21 2016, Duan
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> <swift-evolution at swift.org
>>>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org
>>>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org
>>>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org
>>>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org
>>>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org
>>>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org
>>>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org
>>>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>>>>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Great proposal. I want to second that areSame may mislead user to
>>>>>>>>> think this is about identity.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I like areEquivalent() but there may be better names.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> It really *is* about identity as I posted in a previous message.  But
>>>>>>>> that doesn't change the fact that areEquivalent might be a better name.
>>>>>>>> It's one of the things we considered; it just seemed long for no real
>>>>>>>> benefit.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If the addresses of the arguments aren’t being used, then we don’t consider
>>>>>>> them part of their *identity*. I can follow this logic. My fear is most users
>>>>>>> won’t make this leap on their own and get the same initial impression as I did.
>>>>>>> It's entirely possible this fear is unfounded. Some educated bikesheding
>>>>>>> wouldn't hurt here IMO :)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Well, it's still a very real question whether we ought to have the
>>>>>> additional API surface implied by areSame, or wether we should collapse
>>>>>> it with ===.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> To spell this out (because I had to think about it for a second): === will be derived from
>>>>> <=>,
>>>>> but also becomes default implementation for ==, which remains open for
>>>>> customization.
>>>> 
>>>> I was imagining roughly this (untested):
>>>> 
>>>>  /// Two references are identical if they refer to the same
>>>>  /// instance.
>>>>  ///
>>>>  /// - Note: Classes with a more-refined notion of “identical”
>>>>  ///   should conform to `Identifiable` and implement `===`.
>>>>  func ===(lhs: AnyObject, rhs: AnyObject) -> Bool {
>>>>    ObjectIdentifier(lhs) == ObjectIdentifier(rhs)
>>>>  }
>>>> 
>>>>  /// Supports testing that two values of `Self` are identical
>>>>  ///
>>>>  /// If `a` and `b` are of type `Self`, `a === b` means that
>>>>  /// `a` and `b` are interchangeable in most code.  A conforming
>>>>  /// type can document that specific observable characteristics
>>>>  /// (such as the `capacity` of an `Array`) are inessential and
>>>>  /// thus not to be considered as part of the interchangeability
>>>>  /// guarantee.
>>>>  ///
>>>>  /// - Requires: `===` induces an equivalence relation over
>>>>  ///   instances.
>>>>  /// - Note: conforming types will gain an `==` operator that
>>>>  ///   forwards to `===`.
>>>>  /// - Note: Types that require domain-specific `==`
>>>>  ///   implementations with different semantics (e.g. floating
>>>>  ///   point) should define a more-specific overload of `==`,
>>>>  ///   which will be used in contexts where the static type is
>>>>  ///   known to the compiler.
>>>>  /// - Note: Generic code should usually use `==` to compare
>>>>  ///   conforming instances; that will always dispatch to `===`
>>>>  ///   and will be unaffected by more specific overloads of
>>>>  ///   `==`.
>>>>  protocol Identifiable { // née Equatable name is negotiable
>>>>    func ===(_: Self, _: aSelf) -> Bool
>>>>  }
>>>> 
>>>>  /// Default definition of `==` for Identifiable types.
>>>>  func ==<T: Identifiable>(lhs: T, rhs: T) -> Bool {
>>>>    return lhs === rhs
>>>>  }
>>>> 
>>>>  /// Conforming types have a default total ordering.
>>>>  ///
>>>>  /// If `a` and `b` are of type `Self`, `a <=> b` means that
>>>>  /// `a` and `b` are interchangeable in most code.  A conforming
>>>>  /// type can document that specific observable characteristics
>>>>  /// (such as the `capacity` of an `Array`) are inessential and
>>>>  /// thus not to be considered as part of the interchangeability
>>>>  /// guarantee.
>>>>  ///
>>>>  /// - Requires: `<=>` induces a total ordering over
>>>>  ///   instances.
>>>>  /// - Requires: the semantics of `<=>` are  consistent with
>>>>  ///   those of `===`.  That is, `(a <=> b) == .equivalent`
>>>>  ///   iff `a === b`.
>>>> 
>>>> For floating point, I'd hope that `a === b` if `(a <=> b) == .same` *but not iff*. This is to satisfy IEEE 754: "Comparisons shall ignore the sign of zero (so +0 = −0)".
>>>> 
>>>>  /// - Note: conforming types will gain `<`, `<=`, `>`, and `>=`
>>>>  ///   operators defined in terms of `<=>`.
>>>>  /// - Note: Types that require domain-specific `<`, etc.
>>>>  ///   implementations with different semantics (e.g. floating
>>>>  ///   point) should define more-specific overloads of those
>>>>  ///   operators, which will be used in contexts where the
>>>>  ///   static type is known to the compiler.
>>>>  /// - Note: Generic code can freely use `<=>` or the traditional
>>>>  ///   comparison operators to compare conforming instances;
>>>>  ///   the result will always be supplied by `<=>`
>>>>  ///   and will be unaffected by more specific overloads of
>>>>  ///   the other operators.
>>>>  protocol Comparable : Identifiable {
>>>>    func <=> (lhs: Self, rhs: Self) -> Ordering
>>>>  }
>>>> 
>>>>  /// Default implementations of `<`, `<=`, `>`, and `>=`.
>>>>  extension Comparable {
>>>>    static func <(lhs: Self, rhs: Self) -> Bool {
>>>>      return (lhs <=> rhs) == .ascending
>>>>    }
>>>>    static func <=(lhs: Self, rhs: Self) -> Bool {
>>>>      return (rhs <=> lhs) != .ascending
>>>>    }
>>>>    static func >(lhs: Self, rhs: Self) -> Bool {
>>>>      return (lhs <=> rhs) == .descending
>>>>    }
>>>>    static func >=(lhs: Self, rhs: Self) -> Bool {
>>>>      return (rhs <=> lhs) != .descending
>>>>    }
>>>>  }
>>>> 
>>>>> I like this idea. If we keep === as a separate thing, now users have 3 “opportunities” to define
>>>>> equality. The must be few, if any, use cases for this.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Would love to see if anyone on the list can give us an example. Otherwise we should make
>>>>> areSame === again™!
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Daniel Duan
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 21, 2016, at 6:32 PM, Robert Widmann via swift-evolution
>>>>>>>>>> <swift-evolution at swift.org
>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>
>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>>>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 21, 2016, at 6:19 PM, Xiaodi Wu
>>>>>>>>>>> <xiaodi.wu at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:xiaodi.wu at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:xiaodi.wu at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:xiaodi.wu at gmail.com>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> This is nice. Is `areSame()` being proposed because static `==` is
>>>>>>>>>>> the status quo and you're trying to make the point that `==` in the
>>>>>>>>>>> future need not guarantee the same semantics?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Yep!  Equivalence and equality are strictly very different things.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Nit: I think the more common term in stdlib would be
>>>>>>>>>>> `areEquivalent()`. Do you think `same` in that context (independent
>>>>>>>>>>> of the word "ordering") might erroneously suggest identity?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> There is room for improvement here.  Keep ‘em coming.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 8:11 PM, Robert Widmann via
>>>>>>>>>>>> swift-evolution
>>>>>>>>>>>> <swift-evolution at swift.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Swift Community,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Harlan Haskins, Jaden Geller, and I have been working on a
>>>>>>>>>>>> proposal to clean up the semantics of ordering relations in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> standard library.  We have a draft that you can get as a gist.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Any feedback you might have about this proposal helps - though
>>>>>>>>>>>> please keeps your comments on Swift-Evolution and not on the gist.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> ~Robert Widmann
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Dave
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
>> -- 
>> Dave
>> 
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-- 
Dave



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