[swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review #2] SE-0117: Default classes to be non-subclassable publicly

L. Mihalkovic laurent.mihalkovic at gmail.com
Wed Jul 20 11:20:04 CDT 2016

(From mobile)

> On Jul 20, 2016, at 9:54 AM, Tino Heth via swift-evolution <swift-evolution at swift.org> wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>> Am 20.07.2016 um 00:26 schrieb Peter Livesey via swift-evolution <swift-evolution at swift.org>:
>> 1. I don't understand what problem this solves?
> That's just natural — most likely you have just a different mindset.
> There are already several cases where "bureaucrats try to constrict freedom" (sorry, it's hard to come up with neutral words here... but on the other hand: a bureaucrat may have a much more positive interpretation of this term than I ;-), and when I noticed it for the first time, I was really baffled why someone tries hard to push a change that creates limitations without offering any significant benefit…
> I found the missing piece to understand the situation here
> http://martinfowler.com/bliki/DirectingAttitude.html
> Fowler did a great job, and with this hint I realized why I couldn't find any good arguments for the other side: There is none — at least for me, as It is all only a matter of perspective.
> The only thing missing in Fowlers three articles are good designations for members of the two camps (I personally refer to my side as the "hackers", and I already mentioned the "bureaucrats" ;-)
> Imho the discussion would greatly improve if everybody accepted this model of two contrary attitudes.
> This insight really helped me to keep my sanity in the face of many others acting absolutely "nuts", fighting for a change with nothing but downsides and not even a single example that there are situations where it would be beneficial for me.
> So my advice: Be glad that you don't see such problems in your real work life, and hope that the extremists who would like to completely remove classic object orientation and cripple Swift to fully match their ideals don't prevail ;-)

That ship has sailed... it is now just a matter of the implementation details... My hopes are now on google forking swift like they did to webkit and dalvik. It won't save the apps, bug it would the servers.

> - Tino
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