[swift-evolution] Winding down the Swift 3 release

[David Waite]

With semantic versioning, the API changes would require the next version to be called 3.0. The challenge is to not attach stability/maturity ‘feelings’ to semantic version numbers.

I don’t think people should attach meaning to Swift being 3.0 any more than they do to Chrome being 50.0

If we insist 3.0 is not just a sign of an incompatible API but a sign of maturity, then we will have no releases until the “maturity” feature-set gets in. Which means we will lose a great deal of real world use and feedback into language design and evolution.

-DW

> On May 17, 2016, at 12:05 PM, Goffredo Marocchi via swift-evolution <swift-evolution at swift.org> wrote:
> 
> I do agree with what you are saying, but in a way it seems to also be saying that the version number set by Apple is a bit rushed. A language reaching 3.0 state and not having nailed down ABI stability sounds a lot different than Swift 0.95 or Swift 1.5 being at the same state and I do not think it would say anything bad about the language if it only hit 1.0 when it reaches ABI stability. 
> 
> It would be sad if the argument were "people would not use Swift if it were still v0.9" as it brings back memories of the KDE 4.0 jump (Swift is nowhere near the unstable mess KDE 4.0 was, but they had that very same justification for using the 4.0 version number).
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 17 May 2016, at 14:38, Rod Brown <rodney.brown6 at icloud.com> wrote:
>> 
>> While on the face of it, you are correct, the goals have changed dramatically, I think you are being unfair.
>> 
>> Swift 3 initial scope was determined prior to the input of the Swift Evolution community, just as it was being Open Sourced. As we have explored the language in many discussions, it has been clear there are other areas of the language that needed clean and polish before a stable ABI can be established.
>> 
>> It appears that this work is more involved than the Swift Team initially envisioned. The fact they are open to changing timelines and ensuring we get fundamentals of the language sorted is a testament to their commitment to the quality of Swift as a whole.
>> 
>> Looking at Swift 3 as compared to Swift 2, there are massive changes in the pipeline that both break source and change the language fundamentally. I think it's far too much to ask that they get this work done rushed, and also pile on ABI compatibility goals at the last minute. Do we really want to rush this and get it wrong?
>> 
>> I applaud the team in making a tough decision that these changes should come before we start working on the ABI.
>> 
>> - Rod
>> 
>>> On 17 May 2016, at 10:35 PM, Jeremy Pereira via swift-evolution <swift-evolution at swift.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 16 May 2016, at 18:38, Goffredo Marocchi via swift-evolution <swift-evolution at swift.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Quite sad we could not get into ABI stability for Swift 3... but are we talking Swift 3.1 or 4.0?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Disappointing is my first thought, in fact worrying. Two years after the language was announced, the ABI is still not stable.
>>> 
>>> Of the original Swift 3 goals, it looks like many will not be met. There were seven goals and only two are still in the Readme file[1]. On the assumption that the other five were all dropped because they will not be achieved in Swift 3, this looks like failure.
>>> 
>>> I’ve been following the evolution list on and off since it started and it hasn’t felt like failure. In fact, it felt like important progress has been made and the language will be hugely better for it, but I do hope that the development team does take the opportunity to review the release in light of the original goals to see if there are any opportunities to improve the development process for the next release.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> [1] https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/d6e62467b03435bdc4b3bd473c3dcffb9fdd6a71/README.md compared to https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/f11d2e970521f5df0f7510f89ee9c7decb3fa394/README.md
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
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