[swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0026 Abstract classes and methods

[Антон Жилин]

Some more ideas. I do not necessary look at them as arguments "for" or
"against", and additionally I'm biased, as I've already said.

While there are many use cases for mixins and multiple inheritance, in many
cases there is a superclass which is clearly predominant, almost like the
classical animals, cats and dogs.
Classes are a bit simpler to grasp for users of C++ and similar languages.
My mixins proposal currently has issues regarding multiple inheritance.
(Does it?)

The fact that classes and mixins have duplicated functionality, still bugs
me.
I also prefer "pure" approach, where everything is a struct unless it needs
class-only features - deinit, for example. It is my personal opinion.

2016-02-28 20:28 GMT+03:00 Goffredo Marocchi <panajev at gmail.com>:

> So far while pushing for protocol oriented programming as one of Swift's
> distinctive features, the Swift team (or at least Chris Lattner) stated
> that inheritance is not a patter which is bad per se, it is a pattern which
> has its uses and it is fully supported by Swift just as much as other
> patterns Swift makes available. In my opinion of you have a feature, this
> feature should not fight with a hand tied behind its back: the "if you do
> it, do it well" approach :).
>
> Answers like this seem to be the next best thing from asking to remove
> inheritance outright or to limit it more. Improving protocols, improving
> functional programming support, etc... all of that is orthogonal to
> improving OOP through class inheritance.
> Support for abstract classes does not force people to use inheritance.
> Instead of doc using energies pushing down proposals that advocate for
> improving class based inheritance, I see energy better spent in making
> proposals that improve protocols unless they get filled by inheritance die
> hard afraid of the success of protocols meaning a death sentence for
> inheritance :).
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 28 Feb 2016, at 17:11, Trent Nadeau via swift-evolution <
> swift-evolution at swift.org> wrote:
>
> >       • What is your evaluation of the proposal?
> -1. I would prefer something like mixins that could work without
> inheritance and would thus also work with value types.
>
> >       • Is the problem being addressed significant enough to warrant a
> change to Swift?
> Yes, although I don't think abstract classes that force inheritance and
> only work for classes is the answer.
>
> >       • Does this proposal fit well with the feel and direction of Swift?
> No.
>
> >       • If you have used other languages or libraries with a similar
> feature, how do you feel that this proposal compares to those?
> My opinion is based on other languages I've used that have better ways to
> handle this (Ruby, Python, D) as well as the downsides I've seen with
> abstract classes in Java and C++.
>
> >       • How much effort did you put into your review? A glance, a quick
> reading, or an in-depth study?
> I've followed the various threads on this topic that have come up since
> Swift was open-sourced.
>
> On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 12:02 PM, Антон Жилин <swift-evolution at swift.org>
> wrote:
>
>> My GMail keeps breaking threads. I wrote this in reply to this post of
>> Matthew Johnson:
>>
>> https://lists.swift.org/pipermail/swift-evolution/Week-of-Mon-20160222/011351.html
>>
>> 2016-02-28 19:50 GMT+03:00 Антон Жилин <antonyzhilin at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> It would be interesting to know your opinion on "mixins" proposal. Do
>>> you need some kind of "abstract classes for structs", perhaps with multiple
>>> inheritance, or you find that more elegant architectual solutions to
>>> problems can be found, without partially implemented constructs?
>>> https://gist.github.com/Anton3/f0550922c1be0fc5447c
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> swift-evolution mailing list
>> swift-evolution at swift.org
>> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Trent Nadeau
>
> _______________________________________________
> swift-evolution mailing list
> swift-evolution at swift.org
> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.swift.org/pipermail/swift-evolution/attachments/20160228/4f21dee7/attachment.html>