[swift-evolution] access control

Ondrej Barina obarina at gmail.com
Mon Jan 25 03:21:58 CST 2016

IIya:  Private access on file is just fine. I do not understand why you are
so much against it. Just stop for 10 minutes and think about it...
Ondrej Barina

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 3:54 AM, David Waite via swift-evolution <
swift-evolution at swift.org> wrote:

> > On Jan 24, 2016, at 1:15 PM, Ilya Belenkiy via swift-evolution <
> swift-evolution at swift.org> wrote:
> >
> >> I think it's possible to believe that your feature would be useful
> >> without also believing there's something fundamentally wrong with the
> >> current model, and your arguments make it sound to me like you think
> >> you're getting a lot more certainty from C++'s "private" than you
> >> actually are.
> >
> >
> > Data encapsulation is a cornerstone of object oriented programming.
> Swift has classes, and yet it is impossible to completely hide state /
> implementation details inside the class. Moreover, it’s impossible to
> express that something is intended to be completely hidden. Since such a
> fundamental idea is not supported, there is something fundamentally wrong
> with the current model. Swift is already a great language, and this issue
> aside, it’s by far the best language I’ve used. In all other areas Swift
> does a great job to help the programmer write correct code. This is one
> weird and very noticeable deviation.
> Data encapsulation is indeed one of the cornerstone of OO, but every
> design decision is a trade-off. Is Python not object-oriented because they
> lack a private keyword, and have the convention of marking internal items
> with a leading underscore?
> In addition, it is not possible to completely hide state/implementation
> details in any language (at least that I have experience with). Java, for
> instance, will let me use the security manager and RTTI to modify private
> values, and even has JNI code to modify final values as well (this is how
> System.out works). There are projects that fundamentally depend on being
> able to access private fields, such as Spring, partly because the Java
> standard library tells them to (@Injectable).
> Even with a “perfect” language mechanism, consumers of the binary will
> still patch it if they need to in order to get the functionality they want.
> The best anyone can do is make the breaking of encapsulation an explicit
> choice. I’m intuiting that you think that writing code into the file where
> the class was defined is not explicit enough. I feel comfortable saying to
> my team members that you have to justify adding code next to a class in the
> same way you would need to justify changing the implementation of that
> class. The difference between ‘local’ and ‘private’ access is a copy/paste
> of a function from an extension into the class body within the same file.
> -DW
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