[swift-evolution] Mailman?

[David Owens II]

Why couple two systems together that don’t need to be? Also, using issues as a discussion list is really abusing it’s purpose. Is someone really going to go through and mark certain ones closed and others not?

By coupling the two systems together, you make it significantly more challenging change how the source code is stored and where. You’ve arbitrarily said that GitHub is the way we are going to manage this project for all of time. How do you export all of the issues into another system now? 

It might be more convenient for some, but it creates long-term problems for no measurable short-term gain.

Also, your list of steps conveniently leaves out the setup process for a GitHub account. 

> On Dec 15, 2015, at 9:11 AM, James Campbell via swift-evolution <swift-evolution at swift.org> wrote:
> 
> Additionally this isn't reworking the infrastructure all we have to do is stop using mailman and start using github issues. It would take 2 seconds and would save more time than having to redirect people here and maintain mailman etc.
> 
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 5:06 PM, James Campbell <james at supmenow.com <mailto:james at supmenow.com>> wrote:
> Exactly, if a discussion goes well. People are going to have to make an account anyways to contribute their idea to swift. So we are picking mailman to optimise for something that isn't actually an advantage at all. Plus we have less power to filter than github.
> 
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 4:32 PM, Kevin Wooten <kdubb at me.com <mailto:kdubb at me.com>> wrote:
> Agreed, +10
> 
> Somebody brought up the idea of needing “yet another account”.  Just wanted to point out that Github, and an it’s associated account, area already required; and honestly who doesn’t have a Github account at this point.
> 
> A lot of advantages have already been brought up but I would like to add…
> 
> — Being able to filter discussions that don’t interest me
> In Github ‘watching' the project means I can get emails for all discussions (issues or PRs). I can then selectively disable notifications associated with a specific thread that doesn’t interest me.  For people who are mostly inactive the opposite is available; to opt-in to only interested threads.  This is something not available at all at the moment; even though my Apple mail sorts nicely by thread it's not the same thing.  
> 
> — Inline code coloring/formatting
> Unless I am missing some great feature of Mailman, this is something that’s a bit annoying at the moment. Yes I know I can got to an external tool and copy out formatted code for my email but Github discussions provide this in a much easier fashion.  We are discussing “code” after all.
> 
> — One can make (Github notifications == Mailman) be true
> If a person turns on email notifications for everything and they can participate in discussions just like they do now; including reading/responding entirely via email.
> 
> 
>> On Dec 15, 2015, at 8:28 AM, James Campbell via swift-evolution <swift-evolution at swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>> wrote:
>> 
>> +1 for mailing list.
>> 
>> This is what I had to do to contribute to swift.
>> 
>> 1. Search for the Swift Repo
>> 2. Navigate to Repo
>> 3. File Issue and wait.
>> 4. Get told I have to discuss in the mailing list.
>> 5. Search for swift website
>> 6. Find page for mailing lists.
>> 7.  figure out which one I'm interested in and click on it.
>> 8. Enter my details.
>> 9. go to my email client and confirm my subscription.
>> 10. remember email address for mailing address.
>> 11. type it into a new email and compose thoughts.
>> 12. send it.
>> 13. after much discussion, if people like it.
>> 14. navigate back to the repo.
>> 15. fork.
>> 16. make changes.
>> 17. open pull request.
>> 
>> Steps if we just did it via github issues:
>> 
>> 1. Search for the Swift Repo
>> 2. Navigate to Repo
>> 3. File Issue and wait.
>> 4. after much discussion, if people like it.
>> 5. navigate back to the repo.
>> 6. fork.
>> 7. make changes.
>> 8. open pull request.
>> 
>> 
>> I can't see why 17 steps is better for engagement and more people contributing ?
>> 
>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 3:06 PM, Robert Schwalbe via swift-evolution <swift-evolution at swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>> wrote:
>> Mailman is tried and true, but also a bit clunky. Many people might not like participating in these sorts of discussions by email.
>> 
>> Has there been any though of using something like Discourse (<http://www.discourse.org/ <http://www.discourse.org/>>http://www.discourse.org/ <http://www.discourse.org/>) for the Swift mailing lists?
>> 
>> Jacob Bandes-Storch
>> 
>> -1 for not using a mailing list (or +1 FOR using a mailng list).
>> 
>> Being able to keep a full searchable archive on my own hardware is indispensable.
>> Big numbers in an inbox do not scare me. I am in full control in maintaining the
>> archive and what I may not have any interest in today, I may have tomorrow.
>> 
>> One day, the silos will disappear.
>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>>  Wizard
>> james at supmenow.com <mailto:james at supmenow.com>
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
>  Wizard
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> +44 7523 279 698 <tel:%2B44%207523%20279%20698>
> 
> 
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