<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 2, 2016, at 1:08 PM, Drew Crawford via swift-build-dev <<a href="mailto:swift-build-dev@swift.org" class="">swift-build-dev@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class="">Our "Future Features" list does include "Support for Other Build Systems" (<a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-package-manager/blob/master/Documentation/PackageManagerCommunityProposal.md#support-for-other-build-systems" class="">https://github.com/apple/swift-package-manager/blob/master/Documentation/PackageManagerCommunityProposal.md#support-for-other-build-systems</a>), so long-term I think I'd like to see us develop a proposal for that as the solution to your problem here.</div></div></blockquote><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">If I'm not mistaken, one solution to this problem would be</span><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">* Add support for custom include paths</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">* Add a "preflight step" where a package can run a bash script as part of its build process</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">* Make the bash script run the external build system and point the include paths to a modulemap pointing to built products</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">I have an implementation + tests for all of these,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">plus I've used them to package libdispatch</b>, in a private fork. That solution exists today.</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">I'm not saying it's the best solution. Would it make sense to sit down and spec out what is the "right way" to support an automake project like libdispatch? I would be more than happy to reimplement this some other way, if someone can explain what way that is.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>I think this would be a reasonable approach, yes. I do think that long term we should have some support for projects that build using an "external" system. We will want to design that carefully though, so this might be more lead time than you want.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>One thing I would rather not do now is support arbitrary things that introduce external dependencies (like custom include paths). If we are going to support external things, I would still like it to be done in a way where everything is done internal to the package's sandbox.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>For your problem specifically, would it be addressed if:</div><div> - libdispatch was shipped as part of the Swift distribution? This should happen eventually once the Linux version is stable enough. This isn't a generally solution, of course.</div><div> - the other C parts were made to fit into my "C language targets" proposal? Does it cover what you need to do?</div><div><br class=""></div><div> - Daniel</div><div><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">I'm trying to minimize the scope of what I'm going to maintain myself in my fork, but being able to link C and Rust dependencies is non-optional for me, so I just went ahead and did it. I think it would be unfortunate if this feature is only available from me for awhile.</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class="">Your second proposal, for custom include paths, seems really specific to supporting pre-built binaries</div></div></blockquote><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Based on the above, this seems plainly false. I am using it to package libdispatch, which is a source package. There may be good reasons not to do this, but I don't think this argument is one.</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 2, 2016, at 2:01 PM, Rick Ballard <<a href="mailto:rballard@apple.com" class="">rballard@apple.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class="">Hi Drew,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This use case – facilitating packages that include pre-built binaries – is not one that we want to support right now. For the foreseeable future we'd really like to stick to source-based distribution, as discussed in <a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-package-manager/blob/master/Documentation/PackageManagerCommunityProposal.md#source-based-distribution" class="">https://github.com/apple/swift-package-manager/blob/master/Documentation/PackageManagerCommunityProposal.md#source-based-distribution</a>.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Your proposal for dependencies on subpaths within a repo is one that we might consider at some point independent of this problem, but we'd need a better driving reason to do so. (We've had some discussions internally about whether to enforce that each package lives at the top level of a repo, vs supporting repos that contains multiple packages, and, at least for now, I think we'd like to have a repo per package). Your second proposal, for custom include paths, seems really specific to supporting pre-built binaries, so I don't think that aligns with our goals.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Our "Future Features" list does include "Support for Other Build Systems" (<a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-package-manager/blob/master/Documentation/PackageManagerCommunityProposal.md#support-for-other-build-systems" class="">https://github.com/apple/swift-package-manager/blob/master/Documentation/PackageManagerCommunityProposal.md#support-for-other-build-systems</a>), so long-term I think I'd like to see us develop a proposal for that as the solution to your problem here.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So at the moment, I don't think I would want to accept a PR for either of these proposals. But I really appreciate your bringing this up.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thank you,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>- Rick</div><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 25, 2015, at 8:22 AM, Drew Crawford via swift-build-dev <<a href="mailto:swift-build-dev@swift.org" class="">swift-build-dev@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Just to be clear...</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">If I PRed one or both of these, it would be rejected?</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">I'm going to cook up some solution in any case, it's a question of whether I should be gearing up to distribute and maintain a long term fork. It's undesirable since it complicates upstreaming further work I do in my tree. </div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">But it will be unavoidable if I need a solution before you want to design it, which sounds like it may be the present situation. </div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class="">Sent from my iPhone</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class="">On Dec 25, 2015, at 9:36 AM, Max Howell <<a href="mailto:max.howell@apple.com" class="">max.howell@apple.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=""><div class=""></div><div class="">This fulls under our "mixed targets" future plan.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">For now I think you'll not be able to use swiftpm at all. Sorry :(</div><div class=""><br class="">On Dec 25, 2015, at 3:19 AM, Drew Crawford via swift-build-dev <<a href="mailto:swift-build-dev@swift.org" class="">swift-build-dev@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">I'm trying to package a Swift library. This Swift library is tightly coupled to a native library. By "tightly coupled" here I really mean that only half the library is written in Swift, and the other half, as an implementation detail, is in some other language.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">You *probably* do not have a build environment for this other language just lying around, so my plan (actually, my current practice) is to distribute binaries of the non-Swift part, just checked into source control, and then link against them with a module map. Yes, I realize this isn't portable, but neither is anything else in this project, so I'll save that particular surprise for another day.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The trouble is, <a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-package-manager/blob/master/Documentation/SystemModules.md" class="">swiftpm wants there to be some "other" repo called `CFoo` containing only a modulemap with paths that point to... /usr/local I guess?</a> But </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">1. There is no other repo</div><div class="">2. You have not installed the non-Swift half of my library to /usr/local</div><div class="">3. You do not want to link against "some" version of the binary blob you have lying around from times past. You want to link against exactly the one I give you, because the work is versioned as a whole.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I see two solutions to this problem.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""># Non-URL dependencies</div><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Behind this door, I can write a Package.swift like this:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><blockquote class="" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="">let package = Package(</div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""> name: "Foo",</div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""> dependencies: [</div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""> .Package(path: "CFoo"),</div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""> ],</div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="">)</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div><div class="">The semantic of this is that Foo depends on a package CFoo that is merely a folder in the current repository (e.g., we do not need to clone it from somewhere else).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In my case CFoo would contain a module.map and a binary blob, but in the general case it is any arbitrary kind of package.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This solves my three problems since 1) There's only one repo, 2) The binary is located with repo-based paths, 3) You're linking against the particular CFoo distributed in the repository.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""># Custom include paths</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Another possibility goes like this:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote class="" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;"><div class=""><div class="">let package = Package(</div></div><div class=""><div class=""> name: "Foo",</div></div><div class=""><div class=""> extraIncludePaths: ["CFoo"]</div></div><div class=""><div class="">)</div></div></blockquote><br class=""><div class="">The semantic of this is that we pass `-I CFoo` to swiftc (e.g. that is emitted into `other-args` of llbuild.yaml)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In my case CFoo contains a module.map and a binary blob, but in the general case it contains any kind of header path that a package may want to import.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">There are certainly other possibilities besides these two, I'm just suggesting them because they seem straightforward based on my poking around in the sourcecode today.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I am happy to contrib either of these (or something else proposed) but would like to achieve consensus on a design instead of PRing by surprise.</div><img src="https://u2002410.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/open?upn=cbMbdH1LnH6O78Q-2BHw3jtU8ikibH470Fh9meAJKpwSoR6Dp7FtuqYaEV4C9RawNf2ncqZHxy7-2Fr3spQxV0fCMIRRvE824kadSrr49o5DHiDpCvfmbMvOpUKIhbT2BvW-2BXGxzlS6xWTCcRn1qDsHvhF-2BXgExMGK7hKVpByw6dkCWN0dHQenyu5H6lU-2BWrbs5sVDg9u7ZAki0oXJ1TE8AOf0cfqYVSaXCXNqO14Hfqu-2Fk-3D" alt="" width="1" height="1" border="0" class="" style="height: 1px !important; 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